Black Ethiopian Jews

Is your premise correct? Genetic studies say otherwise in terms of shared ancestry amongst the groups you mentioned.

Do Ethiopians have the “cohen” gene? Also, I don’t like involving genes in yichus discussions…the Ethiopian population has chashashos that made most gedolei yisroel not go with the radvaz’s shitoh in our time, except for rav ovadia yosef. They don’t have a mesorah, they have tremendous errors in their torahs, have no gemara, and many other issues. The chances that an individual Ethiopian is Jewish is about the same as people who claim to be marranos…we do a gerus, and don’t assume that they sre Jewish.

The OP puts too much emphasis on race as evidence that Ethiopian Jews are not Jewish. Race is an unsound genetic construct. If the genetic links among different groups of Jews are as the OP says, then race does nothing to support his/her position. I am not familiar with the genetic links among various groups of Jews

Next topic: ashkenazi Jews have suspiciously similar noses, probably correlated to a small number of Jewish men they come from, while larger variety of non-Jewish women they married. I am pretty sure if Ethiopean Yidden would be the first to settle in EY recently, this would the question they’d raise.

1. The ethiopian jews show us how important it was that the mishna and gemara was written down. If it wasn’t, then we could have been like them, or worse.
2. They are assumed to be froom the 10 Shevatim of Malchus Yisroel, which was brought to galus and scattered around the world by Sancheirev YM”S and only now they are being revealed. One of the promises that Moshiach is nearing is that they will be known and united with the other Yidden.
3. There were some Kohanim & levi’im that were exiled with the 10 Shevatim, so they could have some Kohanim & levi’im.

you spend a couple of thousand yeas in a jungle and we will see what you will remember. Some people I met are pretty dedicated to what they do. for example, they would not let those relatives who convered to another religion into their dwellings, treating them as tumah.

Before coming to Israel they didn”t read Hebrew, have Hebrew names, have a Torah, follow halacha, etc. The vast majority of Ethiopians who came to Israel are practicing Christiana. There are a minority sincere Ethiopian converts; the few converts I met I found to be wonderful, very refined in chacter.

Rav Ovadia Yosef zt”l relied on Radbaz ruling on the Falashas, however the Radbaz clearly rules that they are Karaites. And this was 500 years ago. They subsequently likely assimilated into the Abyssinian population according to many contemporary gedolim who ruled that the Ethiopian Falashim who are Karaites accepted gentiles and were not converted according to halacha and therefore they are Safek Akum and their identity as a Jew is in doubt.

The Ethiopians are not Jewish, they are Safek Akum and definitely Karaites. There is a community of Karuim in Ukraine, will they be considered full Jews as well by the “Jewish state”?

You’re not on the level of Radvaz or R’ Ovadia Yosef. Shut it.

apukerma, I am not saying that there were no gentile European converts but having blond hair and blue eyes does not indicate anything regarding ancestry. Regions have a profound effect on physical appearance that is why people from Africa are black, people the Middle East ( excluding the Levant) are darker, people from Europe are generally lighter. Ashkenazi Jews have lived in Europe for over 1500 years so it definitely will have an effect on the physical appearance of Ashkenazi Jews.

Physical appearance does not get affected by living in a region for one or two generations, but certainly over a millennium it will have an effect on the physical appearance of a people.

@philosopher – I was actually speaking to the OP, whose barely concealed racism is showing once again. Sorry for not being sufficiently clear.

You can cite whatever rulings you want.

Keep in mind: (1) the contentiousness of the issue; (2) the fact that Radvaz and Rav Ovadia are sufficient to rely upon, even if some sort of giyur lechumra or formal renunciation of Karaism is required; and (3) keep in mind that there are two Ethiopian communities in question here, the larger of the two definitely being safek akum and the other one being more likely Karaites. But I’m no expert and this is definitely above my pay grade.

Again, no issues with you at all. My issue is the barely concealed racism and bigotry that the OP constantly spews, as well as his blatant disrespect of anyone who is not Yeshivish/Chassidish. It’s tired, old, childish, divisive and quite frankly irritatingly stupid.

Ujm,

Jews from all the groups you mentioned have taken on superficial racial characteristics of the countries that they lived. Ashkenazi Jews are lighter-skinned than Jews from Sepharad, who are lighter-skinned than Jews from Morroco, who are lighter-skinned than Jews from Yemen. Indeed, there are Teimani Jews with skin just as dark as Ethiopian Jews.

The DNA argument, even if you give it halachic credit, is tenuous at best. They don’t say that Ethiopian Jews don’t have Middle Eastern DNA, they say that they don’t have any more ME DNA than the surrounding population. But a lot of the surrounding population claims descent from Jews as well (they just converted to Christianity) and we don’t know what percentage of the original Beta Israel population was born Jews and what percentage were converts.

The Ethiopian Jews went through tremendous persecution over the millenia. The Church did not let have books other than the OT and (IIRC) they were not permitted to be written in Hebrew. It is for this reason that they lost 95% of their Torah shel bal peh. But they were not Karaites. They had some Oral Law and kept traditions (like muktzah and harchakos) that were not kept by Karaites.

The Beta Israel community sacrificed for thousands of years to keep their connection to Judaism in an extremely hostile environment. Thousands, maybe millions, died al kiddush Hashem. It seems very unlikely to me that they would have had the fortitude and hashgacha to withstand such pressures if they were not genuinely Jewish klapi shmayim galia.

ZSK, ok sorry for the misunderstanding.

It’s interesting to note that Judaism was the official religion of the Ethiopian royal family until the 3rd century CE when the Romans pressured them to convert to Christianity. They still identified as Jewish until the king was dethroned in 1974.
This shouldn’t come as a major surprise. There were several ancient Kingdoms or city states of which the ruling class practiced Judaism, comprised of either local Jewish tribes or converts.
Ethiopia is an interesting case because they were isolated yet simultaneously already known by other Jewish communities. It is also very probable that Jewish men settled there and married local women. That last scenario is a more compelling case to validate their status as Jews. That practice was not uncommon in ancient Jewish communities, and even in not so ancient times. Just look around you today. How many people are able to get away with converting their goyish girlfriends? Except that now, it’s done בחשאי. It used to be almost acceptable.

benignman, if so many Ethiopians refused to be forcibly converted to Christianity then why are most Ethiopians claiming to be Jews and emigrating to Israel practicing Christians?

I have no idea what happened with the quote I tried to put in from Encylopedia Britannica. But it disappeared and the rest of what I wrote was italicized so it looked like the quote that didn’t make it in. Here is the actual quote from Encylopedia Britannica:
“Although the early Beta Israel remained largely decentralized and their religious practices varied by locality, they remained faithful to Judaism after the conversion of the powerful Ethiopian kingdom of Aksum to Christianity in the 4th century CE, and thereafter they were persecuted and forced to retreat to the area around Lake Tana, in northern Ethiopia. Coming under increased threat from their Christian neighbours, the disparate Jewish communities became increasingly consolidated in the 14th and 15th centuries, and it was at this time that these communities began to be considered a single distinct “Beta Israel.” Despite Ethiopian Christian attempts to exterminate them in the 15th and 16th centuries, the Beta Israel partly retained their independence until the 17th century, when the emperor Susenyos utterly crushed them and confiscated their lands. Their conditions improved in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, at which time tens of thousands of Beta Israel lived in the region north of Lake Tana.”

Ujm,

How do you explain the poskim that rule that they are Jews or the poskim that rule that they are a safek and should only have geirus l’chumra?

1. I don’t know the rationale of those that hold that there is no tzad that they are Jews at all. Every posek I have seen on the issue holds that they are at least a safek.

2. IIRC, those poskim mostly hold that although the Beta Israel believed themselves to be Jewish it is not clear whether (a) the founders of the community were actually Jews (according to one tradition they are descendants of a son of Shlomo HaMelech with the Queen of Sheba and Shlomo slaves) or (b) the conversions they conducted over the years were halachically valid. To put it in context, the DNA studies indicate that 50% of the early female Ashkenazi Jewish population was not Jewish. We presume they did proper conversions k’halacha and so we are all Jewish. But the Beta Israel may not have known the proper requirements for conversion and never properly converted their wives.

3 & 4. This question applies to all Jewish communities everywhere. The Beta Israel have long oral traditions and are referred to in Christian writings throughout these periods. There were numerous wars, edicts and other official Ethiopian Empire acts against the Beta Israel. There’s no reason to thing there was some kind of great switcheroo. I can’t personally ascertain the veracity of any of these writings. But I don’t have any reason to doubt them.

benignman, most Falashim in Ethiopians in Israel are practicing Christians. They have many huge Christian institutions in Israel. I am not familiar about Ethiopian Christians being shunned by other Ethiopian groups. Do you mean the Beta Israel shunned the Falashim? I’m not sure about that, just an assumption but the Falashim are practicing Christians claiming to be Jews.

Rav Ovadia Yosef zt”l paskened that they are Jewish according to the Radbaz who said that they are Jewish but Karaites. If we go according to Rav Ovadia Yosef who based his teshuva on the Radbaz then they are Karaites. In fact, the Beta Israel practice what in Israel is refered to as “Haymanot” which is not Rabbincal Judaism which in that case would be the religion of the Karaites.

The Ethiopian Beta Israel who converted to Christianity (most, bit not all, were forced conversions) in the 19th and 20th centuries and their descendants are called the Falash Mura. At this time the Falash are the majority of Ethiopians who came to Israel and they are still, for the most part, practicing Christians. Rav Ovadia Yosef also considered them Jews, but I wonder if the Radbaz would pasken the same as he did to the Beta Yisroel who did not practice Christianity at the time. In fact, the Falash Mura themselves did not consider themselves to be Jewish until after the Beta Israel’s first wave of immigration to Israel.

Philosopher,

Where are you getting the idea that “Most Ethiopians who came to Israel are practicing Christians.” That isn’t true at all. The vast majority are practicing Jews.

Only very recently have any of the Falasha Mura come to Israel and many of them have renounced their Christianity and returned to living as jews.

Ujm,

You asked me to explain those that hold it is a safek so I explained the “not Jewish” side of the safek. But there is also the “Jewish side” of the safek. There are two other traditions for the origin of the community: (a) they are descendants of Jews that went to Egypt and then Ethiopia after the destruction of the 1st Bais Hamkidosh (and they were supplemented by further immigration during various persecutions in Egypt and Yemen); (b) they are descendants of Shevet Dan and others of the aseres hashvatim who were exiled there during Bayis Rishon. These two traditions match better with other Jewish sources that reference the existence of a Jewish community in Africa.

For example, the posuk says in Yeshayah (11:11): וְהָיָ֣ה בַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֗וּא יוֹסִ֨יף אֲדֹ’  שֵׁנִית֙ יָד֔וֹ לִקְנ֖וֹת אֶת־שְׁאָ֣ר עַמּ֑וֹ אֲשֶׁ֣ר יִשָּׁאֵר֩ מֵֽאַשּׁ֨וּר וּמִמִּצְרַ֜יִם וּמִפַּתְר֣וֹס וּמִכּ֗וּשׁ וּמֵעֵילָ֤ם וּמִשִּׁנְעָר֙ וּמֵ֣חֲמָ֔ת וּמֵֽאִיֵּ֖י הַיָּֽם. This is describing the return of Bnei Yisrael from their golus in the times of Moshiach. It lists the places that Bnei Yisrael were exiled to during, or immediately following, Bayis Rishon and includes Kush. There are various other pesukim that reference a Jewish community in Kush or Jewish going to golus to Kush. It makes sense that the Beta Israel would be their descendants.

Moreover, it isn’t clear at all that their conversions weren’t halachically valid. The Gemara says that a person can convert, accept ol malchus shamayim, without much knowledge of the details of mitzvos. The Beta Israel had mikvah and mila. So why wouldn’t their conversions be valid?

Always,

IIRC, they do not have Chanuka at all. Some had a version of Purim but some did not (perhaps because of fear of the Christian population) and their holier people fasted three days before Purim. They have a full Tanach in Ge’ez which is not Hebrew but is a semitic language. However, I believe that their Tanach is the same as the Old Testament used by Ethiopian Christians. And there was definitely a period where they were not allowed to have other, non-Christian approved, books.

They keep one day of Yom Tov. And count Shavuos from the last (7th) day of Pesach, not the first day of Pesach. So their Shavuos is on the 12 or 13 of Shevat. They celebrate it as both a harvest festival and Matan Torah.

I need to look up if they have haftorah or takanos Ezra.

Why is Israel bringing Ethiopian Christians to Israel? It’s makes a lot of $$$$$$$ for many Israelis who are involved.