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Who told you there wasn’t another Dovor Cham in 253, maybe there is
As I wrote, if there was, even a shvus d’shvus would be assur.
maybe there is, but you’re eating them at different meals?
It’s referring to the Shabbos morning/afternoon meal (second seudah of Shabbos).
Common sense dictates there is a difference between Mitzva Gemura and/or Tzorech Godol and L’tzorech Mitzva. This is where me and hello99 agree.
Whatever you call not having a cholent, the R’ma is not being mattir amira l’akum for it (on a d’oraiso).
DY -“As I wrote, if there was, even a shvus d’shvus would be assur.”
And as I wrote -Shvus D’shvus would be Mutter since it’s L’zorech Mitzva (Shabbos).
“It’s referring to the Shabbos morning/afternoon meal (second seudah of Shabbos).”
No, he might have a Chulent for one day meal and not for the second (Shalosh Seudas). Reheating would be Mutter by Shvus D’shvus and this is the case of 253. Prove that the case is like you. You saying it is -doesn’t make it so!
“Whatever you call not having a cholent, the R’ma is not being mattir amira l’akum for it (on a d’oraiso).”
Prove it.
And as I wrote -Shvus D’shvus would be Mutter since it’s L’zorech Mitzva (Shabbos).
Not if it was an extra tavshil.
No, he might have a Chulent for one day meal and not for the second (Shalosh Seudas).
You have a good imagination, inventing a minhag and tzorech to have cholent for seudah shlishis.
“Whatever you call not having a cholent, the R’ma is not being mattir amira l’akum for it (on a d’oraiso).”
Prove it.
253.
DaasYochid -“And as I wrote -Shvus D’shvus would be Mutter since it’s L’zorech Mitzva (Shabbos).
Not if it was an extra tavshil.”
It’s extra for the day, not for the meal!
“No, he might have a Chulent for one day meal and not for the second (Shalosh Seudas).
You have a good imagination, inventing a minhag and tzorech to have cholent for seudah shlishis.”
Not as good as yours – that you equate Mitzva Gemura and Tzorech Mitzva!
Don’t tell me that you believe that you don’t get a Mitzva for eating Chamin during Shalosh Seudas?
“Prove it.
253.”
Noone, but you, learns up 253 as a Mitzva Gemura!
Health , I’ve lost you. You think it’s a mitzvah gemurah to eat cholent at shalosh seudos, but not at the second meal?
DY – No, it’s just a Mitzva to eat Chulent during a meal, not a Mitzva Gemura unless there is nothing else (like in my case -no other main course). Why must you equate the two?
Where did the M”B qualify that it’s a mitzvah gemurah only if you have no other main course? He just says “tavshil cham”.
BTW, I think now I understand why you think your case was a bigger tzorech than the cases brought in the poskim (although I still disagree).
DY -“(although I still disagree).”
I would never be Choshet you to ever agree with me. 🙂
“Where did the M”B qualify that it’s a mitzvah gemurah only if you have no other main course? He just says “tavshil cham”.”
You see this is what happens when you mix up Simanim in the S’A just for you to ask Kashas.
There are obviously two types of Tzorech Godols.
One type of Tzorech Godol would be Matir Ameira L’acum by a D’oraysa like we see in 276.
Another type of Tzorech Godol would be Matir Ameira L’acum by Shvus D’shvus L’chatchilla like we see in 325.
So you’re correct in 325 it doesn’t have to be “no other main course”. Or it could be that even though he just says “Tavshil Cham”, it has to be similiar to Mashkeh where obviously you don’t have any other for Kiddush.
I’m bringing this thread back on topic, for those who may be interested:
However, since most Rishonim only bring the sevara of chasnus, and this does not apply to a mumar the gezeira would not apply.
This is an oversimplification. There are sevaros, said by big acharonim (as mentioned earlier in this thread), to be machmir even according to the rishonim who hold the reason for the gezeiro is chasnus.
Rabbi Eli Gersten is the one who sent me the OU doc
Again, I’m not arguing that there aren’t grounds to be meikil, or even that R’Moshe ZT”L wan’t toleh the din on whether the issuris shema yaachil or chasnus.
I’m just pointing out that there are acharonim who are machmir even with the issur coming from chasnus.
hello99: Just wondering- how do you link to a specific post?
Click the pound sign (#) on the bottom of the post, and copy the link it goes to.
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