- This topic has 363 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 5 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
DaasYochid -“Health,
The Aruch Hashulchan is only matir if it’s an employee, and one of the factors is that a Jew will likely aid in the cooking, which certainly can’t be said in this case.”
The Rishon who this comes from is not Mechalek. Also, the Jew helped by making the Chulent and putting it in the crockpot.
And there is a Kal V’chomer -If an employee is Mutter because you won’t get close to him because he is getting paid, for sure some stranger off the street whom you won’t probably ever see again -you won’t get close to.
“I don’t know who your rov is or what his sources might be; the Shmiras Shabbos K’hilchoso clearly includes an elictric hot plate in the category of “aish”, and the IG”M holds that even a microwave can produce bishul D’oraiso, so even were we to find a source that a covered element is not aish, according to the IG”M it would still be bishul D’oraiso.”
Please don’t bring Rayos from other things. It (crock pot) might be similar to a hot plate, but in No way is it similar to a microwave.
uneeq -“I mentioned what you said over here already (see right below). Although as DY points out, there is still an Issur of bishul. I pointed that out too. Only if it’s fully cooked AND still not-cold/hot will it be muttar to tell a goy.”
No, it doesn’t have to be fully cooked and it could be cold!
“The problem of amira leakum is simpler. You cannot tell a goy to do a melacha for you on shabbos.
So as long as it’s not fully cooked, or it’s cold, it would be a definite Issur. I’m assuming that you can get around the amira leakum problem, though. If the chulent is fully cooked and gets turned off in middle of shabbos, if it’s still piping hot, or according to ashkenazim, not cold yet, a goy would probably be able to put turn it back on (trei derabanan letzorach mitzva).”
Turning on or cooking in the crock pot is only a D’rabbonon and Ameira L’acum is Mutter Letzorech Godol!
DY: “We can go back and forth on this ad infinitum (ad v’lo ad bichlal 🙂 ), but he says no such thing”
We’re only going back, not forth. I still haven’t heard how you understand this Shach.
“R’ Moshe clearly personally felt that it was only based on chasnus, yet in his teshuva never clearly paskens to be totally matir, in fact apparently only wants to rely on it with a tziruf”
Again, that’s not true. He does so in 1:45 and especially 46
Health: a crock pot has a heating element that glows red hot and is certainly an Issur d’Oraisa. Therefore, there is no Heter whatsoever to tell a Goy to turn it on.
The Rishon who this comes from is not Mechalek
We don’t pasken like him.
Also, the Jew helped by making the Chulent and putting it in the crockpot.
That’s not one of the actions which prevents it from being called bishul aku”m.
Please don’t bring Rayos from other things. It (crock pot) might be similar to a hot plate, but in No way is it similar to a microwave.
Let me clarify what I was addressing. Aside from the issur of havarah in turning on the crockpot, there’s also the issur of bishul – cooking the raw cholent. Even if the crockpot were not considered aish, it would be bishul.
Now, one might argue that if the crockpot were not aish (it is; I’m going l’shitoscho), there would be no bishul D’oraiso, similar to cooking in the sun (which is entirely mutar), or something heated by the sun (toldas hachamah which is assur m’d’rabanon). For this, I brought R’ Moshe’s teshuvah that cooking with a microwave is a D’oraiso, and so would be cooking in a crockpot, even if there were no aish.
I still haven’t heard how you understand this Shach.
He’s saying why a mashuch b’orloso doesn’t make yayin nesech, not addressing why a mechalel Shabbos does. That could just as well be because of a “lo plug” (or knas) as a chashash nisuch.
What do you say about my reasoning to be matir the mB”D cholent which was placed on another fire by an aku”m (without a tzivui from the Yid)?
hello99 -“Health: a crock pot has a heating element that glows red hot and is certainly an Issur d’Oraisa. Therefore, there is no Heter whatsoever to tell a Goy to turn it on.”
Who says it gets red hot? I highly doubt that kind of heat from a crock pot or a hot plate. It’s almost impossible what you say because a burner cooks something real quick as opposed to a crock pot or hot plate which takes hours.
DaasYochid -“We don’t pasken like him.”
The Aruch Hashulchan said you can in certain instances. I found a better instance than the A.H.!
Also having the Yid help -the A.H. just said he might help out -he didn’t say it is L’eecuva!
“Let me clarify what I was addressing. Aside from the issur of havarah in turning on the crockpot, there’s also the issur of bishul – cooking the raw cholent. Even if the crockpot were not considered aish, it would be bishul.
Now, one might argue that if the crockpot were not aish (it is; I’m going l’shitoscho), there would be no bishul D’oraiso, similar to cooking in the sun (which is entirely mutar), or something heated by the sun (toldas hachamah which is assur m’d’rabanon). For this, I brought R’ Moshe’s teshuvah that cooking with a microwave is a D’oraiso, and so would be cooking in a crockpot, even if there were no aish.”
And what I’m telling you is – Rav Moshe is a Chiddush regarding cooking in a microwave -you have no proof to apply this elsewhere.
To be a D’oraisa it has to be similar to Meleches Hamishkon -cooking in a crock pot ISN’T similar!
The Aruch Hashulchan said you can in certain instances.
He gave two conditions, neither of which apply here. We have no right to assume that they’re not l’ikuva.
Rav Moshe is a Chiddush regarding cooking in a microwave -you have no proof to apply this elsewhere.
I don’t need proof, the reasoning applies perfectly here as well.
Your argument with hello99 is against the Shmiras Shabbos K’hilchoso.
DaasYochid -“He gave two conditions, neither of which apply here. We have no right to assume that they’re not l’ikuva.”
Yea, but he didn’t say that did he? Did he say that the Yid has to help or that he probably will help? And the employee part -I used a Kal V’chomer. Stop putting words in there that he doesn’t say just to be right!
“I don’t need proof, the reasoning applies perfectly here as well.”
And why is that? Because you say so?!?!?
“Your argument with hello99 is against the Shmiras Shabbos K’hilchoso.”
So what? Any Rov can argue on even Rav Moshe Zt’l, even though most don’t. Are you saying now – no Poisek can argue on the Shmiras Shabbos K’hilchoso?
Health-And what I’m telling you is – Rav Moshe is a Chiddush regarding cooking in a microwave -you have no proof to apply this elsewhere.
To be a D’oraisa it has to be similar to Meleches Hamishkon -cooking in a crock pot ISN’T similar!
There are at least a couple issues at hand-
1) issur bishul of the heating elements
2) issur bishul of the cholent
You may argue that the heating elements don’t reach the deoraysa -glowing red hot- level, although according to the famous chazon ish, “chatzi shiur m’doraysa” and therefore even if it will never glow its still an Issur deoraysa.
Even if that wasn’t an issue, the cold chulent even if completely cooked would be ossur deoraysa to reheat, because of the Issur of Bishul Achar Bishul Be’Lach (liquids). However, if the chulent is hot, if it isn’t fully cooked yet, there is still the simple Issur of Bishul. As long as something isn’t cooked fully you can be OVER on bishul deoraysa. So no, you wouldn’t be able to tell a goy to turn it on in these scenarios.
Health: “Who says it gets red hot? I highly doubt that kind of heat from a crock pot or a hot plate”
Open one up and look as I have. The coil glows red hot, but due to the relatively small size of the coil, it does not get as hot as an electric range.
Can you explain the logic of the Shach to support your position, and not just observe that he is discussing a different case?
uneeq -“There are at least a couple issues at hand-
1) issur bishul of the heating elements
2) issur bishul of the cholent”
True & true. You people are so hyped up everything has to be Ossur -you can’t see clearly!
“You may argue that the heating elements don’t reach the deoraysa -glowing red hot- level, although according to the famous chazon ish, “chatzi shiur m’doraysa” and therefore even if it will never glow its still an Issur deoraysa.”
Acc. to hello99 -it does reach glowing red hot.
“Even if that wasn’t an issue, the cold chulent even if completely cooked would be ossur deoraysa to reheat, because of the Issur of Bishul Achar Bishul Be’Lach (liquids). However, if the chulent is hot, if it isn’t fully cooked yet, there is still the simple Issur of Bishul. As long as something isn’t cooked fully you can be OVER on bishul deoraysa. So no, you wouldn’t be able to tell a goy to turn it on in these scenarios.”
So what? Cooking in the crock pot from the git go isn’t an Issur D’oraysa. See my next post.
Hello99,
I don’t think the Sha”ch is a support or contradiction to the possible issur of a m”S, it’s neutral.
If the reason to asser the bishul or yayin of a mechallel Shabbos is a knas, as stated by the Chasam Sofer and others (knas meaning that he is given the status of a non-Jew for all dinim, lo plug) then the underlying reason for the issurim, chasnus, does not have to apply in order for the issur to apply.
hello99 -“Open one up and look as I have. The coil glows red hot, but due to the relatively small size of the coil, it does not get as hot as an electric range.”
I believe you -so let me rephrase. Electricity is Not Aish. If it creates a light (eg. light bulb) you can see -then it’s possible to be Aish -Sofek D’oraysa. It it creates a heat as strong as Aish (fire) -then it’s possible to be Aish -Sofek D’oraysa. These situations are possibly similar to Maveer in the Mishkon.
A Crock Pot does neither; so it’s only Bishul or Aish D’rabbonon.
Since this is the case -Ameira L’acum is Mutter L’tzorech Godol.
A Poisek isn’t s/o who always finds an Issur. A Poisek is s/o who finds an Ousgehaltene Kula. Instead of getting blinded by this Poisek or that one -think how similar is the type of cooking to the Meleches Hamishkon.
You haven’t Upshlogged me yet about Yoshon in America & you haven’t Upshlogged me yet about this, but I’m sure you will keep trying or repeating the same Narishkeit over & over!
Health,
Why do you call an electric element or bulb a sofeik D’oraisa? It’s been accepted by most if not all poskim as aish D’oraisa.
Even if it wouldn’t be, the bishul of the cholent would still be D’oraiso.
You said a key word in your last post; if a posek says a kulo, it must be “Ousgehaltene”.
DaasYochid -“Why do you call an electric element or bulb a sofeik D’oraisa? It’s been accepted by most if not all poskim as aish D’oraisa.”
I just posted this and you did it in your very next post – “Instead of getting blinded by this Poisek or that one -think how similar is the type of cooking to the Meleches Hamishkon.”
Why don’t you read my posts before responding?
How in the world could electricity or electrical cooking be a Vaday D’oraysa? Did they cook like this in the Mishkon?
It can only be a Sofek which has a Din of a D’oraysa!
“Even if it wouldn’t be, the bishul of the cholent would still be D’oraiso.”
Why do you say this -because Rav Moshe says so about a microwave?
What does one thing have to do with another?
“You said a key word in your last post; if a posek says a kulo, it must be “Ousgehaltene”.”
Exactly! And I’m still waiting for you or anyone else to Upshlogg me and Prove my Shittas aren’t Ousgehalten!
Oh, now it’s starting to get fun & exciting. How I love the Mechelmta of Torah!
You actually ask good questions and now I can use Lomdus to answer them. Let’s try Cheftza & Gavra. The Issur of Havara would be on the Cheftza and the Chesoron (blind man or blanket that you put there) would be on the Gavra. So since the Cheftza didn’t change -it would be Ossur! On the other hand, a crock pot is made with the heating element covered. I’ve never seen one made differently. So the Chesoron would be on the Cheftza and it would be Mutter!
Health-A Crock Pot does neither; so it’s only Bishul or Aish D’rabbonon.
Since this is the case -Ameira L’acum is Mutter L’tzorech Godol.
hello99, DY: It’s clear from here (and other places) that Health has not the slightest clue about hilchos bishul. I’m not even sure how to respond to the unyielding “amaratzus”, without giving a 10 hour introduction course to Hilchos Shabbos.
A Poisek isn’t s/o who always finds an Issur. A Poisek is s/o who finds an Ousgehaltene Kula.
Apparently, anybody who has learnt more than Health, is suddenly surging with religious-zealot-hormones and has to blindly assur things. If only he knew…
The blind man is truly a lack in the Gavra; however, the blanket covers the Cheftza the same way the casing of the crockpot covers its heating element.
Nice try
uneeq -“hello99, DY: It’s clear from here (and other places) that Health has not the slightest clue about hilchos bishul. I’m not even sure how to respond to the unyielding “amaratzus”, without giving a 10 hour introduction course to Hilchos Shabbos.”
Kol Haposel B’momo Poisel. If I’m the Am Haaretz and not you -how come Hello99 & DY are speaking to the issue and not you? Since you ran out what to answer you resort to rank outs. Very mature. Almost as mature as any member of the Sikrikim whom you said that you hope they all are jailed.
hello99 -“The blind man is truly a lack in the Gavra; however, the blanket covers the Cheftza the same way the casing of the crockpot covers its heating element.
Nice try”
Mine is more than a nice try -it makes sense. But keep trying to Upshlogg -this is fun.
Because some guy -let’s say put a blanket over a fire (not a light bulb) it changes the fire -it’s not a fire anymore? It’s a fire with a blanket over it. The same thing- a light bulb (Sofek Aish) is still a light bulb with a blanket over it. Ma ShehAin Kain a crock pot -this is the way a crock pot is. The covering over the heating element is part & parcel of the crock pot. It’s not just a blanket over it. They don’t make them any differently.
To be able to cook in the crock pot -the way it’s made (meant) to be, you need the pot covering the heating coils. This is part of the Cheftza, not like the blanket! So this is not at all like the Aish they had in the Mishkon!
Health,
“Instead of getting blinded by this Poisek or that one -think how similar is the type of cooking to the Meleches Hamishkon.”
That doesn’t address havara.
“Even if it wouldn’t be, the bishul of the cholent would still be D’oraiso.”
Why do you say this -because Rav Moshe says so about a microwave?
What does one thing have to do with another?
The fact that R’ Moshe holds a microwave is D’oraiso, despite the fact that they didn’t have them in the mishkan, shows that you have fundamentally misapplied the concept of “dumya d’mishkan”.
Health-how come Hello99 & DY are speaking to the issue and not you? Since you ran out what to answer you resort to rank outs.
I responded to you no less than 3 times. If you count the responses of the others, you have been responded and answered correctly more than 10 times. I am surprised that they haven’t run out of patience yet. It’s about time that you wake up. Others have complained about you in other places about this same exact issue. (see latest post in kanoyim campain by BTguy)
Parts of 3 different posts-
1) There are at least a couple issues at hand-
1) issur bishul of the heating elements
2) issur bishul of the cholent
You may argue that the heating elements don’t reach the deoraysa -glowing red hot- level, although according to the famous chazon ish, “chatzi shiur m’doraysa” and therefore even if it will never glow its still an Issur deoraysa. etc…
2) The problem of amira leakum is simpler. You cannot tell a goy to do a melacha for you on shabbos.
So as long as it’s not fully cooked, or it’s cold, it would be a definite Issur. etc…
3) Health- I mentioned what you said over here already (see right below). Although as DY points out, there is still an Issur of bishul. I pointed that out too. Only if it’s fully cooked AND still not-cold/hot will it be muttar to tell a goy. etc…
Almost as mature as any member of the Sikrikim whom you said that you hope they all are jailed.
Nice misquote of what I said. All I mentioned there is that its good that one of the bullys is off the local streets. I never said that I was happy that he’s in jail. And I never said all the sikrikim should be thrown in jail, even though that might bring the geula faster than I can pack my luggages.
Health: Your distinction is irrelevant. The Cheftza of the coil is unchanged, regardless of whether they are always or only sometimes covered. The coil remains the same coil.
Anyways, that answer was all l’Shitascha. As others have pointed out, your understanding of Dumia l’Meleches HaMishkan is critically flawed. Sewing with a machine is still Tofer as is harvesting with a combine Kotzer, or for that matter uprooting by hand. As the Eglei Tal and Shvisas HaShabbos explain, when the outcome is identical to the Ma’aseh haMishkan and only the procedure is changed, it becomes a Toldah. Still d’Oraisa, just not the Av Melacha. So, if you wish to claim that a crockpot is only a Toldah of Bishul, as Tzli and Tigun are, and not the Av, there would be what to discuss, however there is no practical Nafka Mina. However, it is rediculous to claim it is only d’Rabbanan.
Health: “How I love the Mechelmta of Torah!”
I think the differnce between us is that you love Milchama and I love Torah
DaasYochid -“That doesn’t address havara.”
It’s the same with Havara -it has to be Dumyea L’mishkon & electricity is Not!
“The fact that R’ Moshe holds a microwave is D’oraiso, despite the fact that they didn’t have them in the mishkan, shows that you have fundamentally misapplied the concept of “dumya d’mishkan”.”
Who said? Maybe R’ Moshe held a microwave is, but not necessarily a different appliance. Perhaps the reason he held so was because the cooking is quite fast similar to a flame! If you want to prove something from a Teshuva -how about copying it and posting it first?
uneeq -“I responded to you no less than 3 times.”
And I’ve responded to your Naariskeit every time.
“You may argue that the heating elements don’t reach the deoraysa -glowing red hot- level, although according to the famous chazon ish, “chatzi shiur m’doraysa” and therefore even if it will never glow its still an Issur deoraysa. etc…”
Buy you really don’t read my posts. I already conceded it can be red hot & it still isn’t Ossur M’doraysa!
“2) The problem of amira leakum is simpler. You cannot tell a goy to do a melacha for you on shabbos.
So as long as it’s not fully cooked, or it’s cold, it would be a definite Issur. etc…”
I said this type of cooking is D’rabbonon!
“3) Health- I mentioned what you said over here already (see right below). Although as DY points out, there is still an Issur of bishul. I pointed that out too. Only if it’s fully cooked AND still not-cold/hot will it be muttar to tell a goy. etc…”
It’s only an Issur D’rabbonon -so Ameira L’acum would be Mutter L’tzorech Godol.
“Nice misquote of what I said. All I mentioned there is that its good that one of the bullys is off the local streets. I never said that I was happy that he’s in jail. And I never said all the sikrikim should be thrown in jail, even though that might bring the geula faster than I can pack my luggages.”
You implied so originally. Only after me calling you out on this -did you do an about face! I got your number -you can’t fool me!
hello99 -“Health: Your distinction is irrelevant. The Cheftza of the coil is unchanged, regardless of whether they are always or only sometimes covered. The coil remains the same coil.”
So what? Since when is a coil -Aish? Cause you say so? A coil in a housing like a bulb which gives off light -could be a Sofek -perhaps it’s similar to a fire. A fire gives off light. The crock pot doesn’t give off light -it’s not made this way. Because it got cooked -so what? The cooking in a crock pot is not the same as cooking on a fire. The fire is much hotter and therefore the food gets done much quicker!
“As others have pointed out, your understanding of Dumia l’Meleches HaMishkan is critically flawed. As the Eglei Tal and Shvisas HaShabbos explain, when the outcome is identical to the Ma’aseh haMishkan and only the procedure is changed, it becomes a Toldah. Still d’Oraisa, just not the Av Melacha. So, if you wish to claim that a crockpot is only a Toldah of Bishul, as Tzli and Tigun are, and not the Av, there would be what to discuss, however there is no practical Nafka Mina. However, it is rediculous to claim it is only d’Rabbanan”
Your trying to prove that I’m wrong from these two Shittos – Since you didn’t post a copy here of what they wrote -either you are misconstruing what they say or we don’t Pasken like them.
There is a Din that you are allowed to cook in the sun, but cooking in sand heated by the sun is Ossur. Acc. to you this should be Ossur M’doraysa because the outcome is the same -so it’s a Toldah. But I’m sorry to inform you -the Achronim say this is only Ossur M’drabonon. You must be right and the Achronim must be wrong because the outcome of the cooking is the same -so it’s a Toldah/D’oraysa!
hello99 -“I think the differnce between us is that you love Milchama and I love Torah”
Sorry you don’t love Torah -you only like Torah if you can say something is Ossur or you can do some Chumra and push this Chumra on others too! And since you responded this way to me -shows you suffer from Kaas also!!!
Health: “Since when is a coil -Aish?”
Achiezer, and pretty much universally accepted since. Vadai and not Safek.
“The cooking in a crock pot is not the same as cooking on a fire. The fire is much hotter and therefore the food gets done much quicker!”
The Temperature is irrelevant. Anything over Yad Soledes is Bishul Min HaTorah.
“Since you didn’t post a copy here of what they wrote -either you are misconstruing what they say or we don’t Pasken like them.”
That’s a ridiculous assumption. If you wish to look them up inside, just ask nicely and i will post precise Mareh Mekomos.
“Acc. to you this should be Ossur M’doraysa because the outcome is the same -so it’s a Toldah. But I’m sorry to inform you -the Achronim say this is only Ossur M’drabonon”
Actually, the Gemara says it’s only d’Rabannan. However, many Achronim explain the reason is due to a distinction in the quality of the output; solar heat will not cook as well as fire.
Health,
Since when is a coil -Aish? Cause you say so?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14671&st=&pgnum=504
If you want to prove something from a Teshuva -how about copying it and posting it first?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=919&st=&pgnum=351&hilite=
you only like Torah if you can say something is Ossur or you can do some Chumra and push this Chumra on others too!
you suffer from Kaas also!!!
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/kanoyim-campaign-against-ywn/page/2#post-343905
Hello99,
While looking up the Achiezer in chelek 4, (I think he discusses electricity in 6) I came across 37 (I think) where he also calls stam yaynom of a m”S a knas.
DaasYochid -“Health: “Since when is a coil -Aish?”
Achiezer, and pretty much universally accepted since. Vadai and not Safek.”
Such Naarishkeit! How could the Achronim say Vaday? I’m sure they don’t say Vaday -they just say Ossur. This has to be because of Sofek! Did they have electric burners in the Mishkon?
“The Temperature is irrelevant. Anything over Yad Soledes is Bishul Min HaTorah.”
Then you post this which you just contradict yourself:
“Actually, the Gemara says it’s only d’Rabannan. However, many Achronim explain the reason is due to a distinction in the quality of the output; solar heat will not cook as well as fire.”
So which one is it? Yad Soledes or cooked as well? You obviously don’t think before you post! Cooking in a crock pot doesn’t cook as well as a fire -that’s why it takes so long. Same with sand!
If you weren’t so sure that you are never wrong -you wouldn’t have wrote what you did. You assume an electric burner is the same as a crock pot. Who told you to assume this? An electric burner would be Ossur D’oraysa if the food reaches Yad Soledes. (Because of Sofek.) A crock pot would only be Ossur D’oraysa if it cooks as well as fire and it doesn’t!
“you suffer from Kaas also!!!
That isn’t Kaas! Didn’t you read the title of the topic? It says Kanoyim. That is Kanoyis!!
I totally lost any respect for you after this last post. Don’t respond to be again in this topic unless you have something new to say. Repeating the same dribble over and over again -only makes you right (or more right) in your mind only!
mods: why is Health allowed to continue this behavior???
Health,
I wasn’t referring to your kaas in that thread, I was referring to your kaas in this one – your completely unjustified attack on hello99.
Although, as others have pointed out, it seems to be displayed in most threads in which you participate.
Health: The Achiezer is accepted as a Vada’us. Many even make a “Borei Morei Ha’eish” over an incandescent bulb on Motza’ei Shabbos. Rav Schachter said there is even a Machlokes by using light bulbs foe Channukah candles-not because it might not be a fire, but a separate issue that you might need some form of Shemen (they say a battery would count for this).
DY: I think they should let him win it 😉
sam: “some form of Shemen”
the problem for Chanuka is that you need a half-hour of fuel at the time of lighting. an AC menora won’t give you that. a battery is aslo questionable, as there isn’t really electricity stored in the battery, just chemichals capable of creating it.
hello99 -“mods: why is Health allowed to continue this behavior???”
DaasYochid -“Health,
I wasn’t referring to your kaas in that thread, I was referring to your kaas in this one – your completely unjustified attack on hello99.”
What short memories you two seem to have. If I remember correctly the nastiness on this thread started when s/o said all I like to do is fight!
Sam2 -“Health: The Achiezer is accepted as a Vada’us. Many even make a “Borei Morei Ha’eish” over an incandescent bulb on Motza’ei Shabbos.”
1. Does he use the word Vaday? If he doesn’t – how do you know he means Vaday?
2. If they make a Beracha on it -that’s their problem. I wouldn’t!
Health: Rav Chaim Ozer did. I think that means Vaday.
Health,
Would you like me to go through the posts of yours, before the milchama line, in which you could have been more respectful?
Sam2 -“Health: Rav Chaim Ozer did.”
Could you please copy & paste? It takes way too long for me to download from the Hebrewbooks.org.
Health: Sorry if I was just unclear. Rav Chaim Ozer used to make Havdalah on electric lights. I think that means he feels it’s a Vaday Aish.
Sam2 -“Health: Sorry if I was just unclear. Rav Chaim Ozer used to make Havdalah on electric lights. I think that means he feels it’s a Vaday Aish.”
The Debrecener Rov zt’l says that it’s only if you don’t have fire. Also it must be a clear, incandescent bulb, nothing else!
hello99, DY -“Achiezer, and pretty much universally accepted since. Vadai and not Safek.”
Yes, I concede -I downloaded it -he does say this. I don’t understand -why, but that is their Psak.
“Health: a crock pot has a heating element that glows red hot and is certainly an Issur d’Oraisa. Therefore, there is no Heter whatsoever to tell a Goy to turn it on.”
See what happenned here is that I’m not a Poisek and you armchair, internet Poiskim were able to Drey me a Kop -so I went in the wrong direction.
The Poskim seem to hold electricity is D’oraysa.
Debrecener Rov zt’l says “You can tell a Goy to turn on a bathroom light”. And he gives quite a few examples of Ameira L’Acum is Mutter L’Tzorech Godol, not just this.
So Ameira L’Acum is Mutter even on a D’oraysa for Tzorech Godol!
So the same would be for a crock pot. You got your cholent in there and it’s your main course -you can have the Goy turn it on for you!
If I’m Chumra shopping -I know your # – 1-800-hello99, until then I’ll use Goyim to turn on crock pots or flames!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.