Bibi Netanyahu נ׳י

and how many times does he endanger our lives every time he is mechalel shabbos

And think how he could have protected Klal Yisrael if he took all that ability and energy (discounting the energy spent on improper activities), and spent it on Torah and Mitsvos (and avoiding the many inappropriate activities for which he is infamous). Yiddishkeit is what protects us in the long run, and bashing a few annoying goyim is at most a short-term, and often a counter-productive, solution.

Tinok shenishba….

If so, he’s no more deserving of honor than a baby.

Marxist, no he’s not a tinok shenishba. He’s a rasha Mechallel Shabbos treif fressor.

Marxist, he knows about Torah Judaism. That makes him absolutely not a tinok shenishba.

Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach said that non-frum Jews nowadays are not in the category of Tinok Shenishba. If they (a) know they are Jewish, and (b) know that they have the option of being religious, and (c ) the government will not persecute them if they become religious, then, he said, if they say they still do not want to become religious, they are no longer in the category of Tinokos Shenishbu.

The chazon ish disagreed wirh rav shlomo zalman. I don’t know what he would say today that there are so many more charedim and lehavdil datiim

Nobody should look down on people who risked their lives whatever level of observance they are, whether they are a prime minister or a stam tzahal soldier from Russia or Ukraine. Maybe people who are at their level may opine.

Also, in addition to Bibi and his brother Yoni, his father has a remarkable insightful book about Abarbanel where he ponders issues of Jewish leadership. The book concludes that Abarbanel missed the moment when Spanish Jews became endangered and, after that, his efforts to prevent expulsion did not help. Did Abarbanel fail, he asks. Answer is – no, as Abarbanel continued visiting and expiring exiles after that and made a great contribution in saving Spanish Jewry after the expulsion.

I read this book when Bibi was the leader in the difficult post-Oslo times, and it felt like the father’s book was about the issues that his son will confront.

edited

Unfortunately religious Jews today are too righteous to take on necessary roles. If not for hilonim, who will protect the state of israel? Who will run the country? Withought getting into what’s ideal, looking at the current state of am yisrael, with all of its segments, we can see clearly how each type of Jew plays a vital role in protecting Am Yisrael, ensuring it’s ability to flourish into the future. I’m talking about from hilonim to haredim and from reform to ultra orthodox. Look at the people who come to the defense of Jews on a daily basis, for the army to watch groups, to social media personalities. How we relate to other types of Jews in our personal lives aside, people like Netanyahu are certainly heroes of am yisrael, and ultimately contributors on a high level to the advancement of Torah.

User – who put us in a situation where we need an army? Let them take care of it; we couldn’t care less if arabs ran the place

The big IF.
All I’m asking is to look at the big picture, how have we benefitted. That’s the way Hakarat Hatov works. Looking at the details you’ll find a reason not to thank anyone. “G-d created me, of course he should provide for me.” This thread is not about what we think about Netanyahu, it’s about owing him gratitude. Failing to recognize the good people do is another form of sinat hinam.

Without a poll of Orthodoxy today, we can’t really know what the normative psak is. However, my experience has indicated to me that most frum people consider most non-Orthodox today tinok shenishbu. Including Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva.

it is not that difficult to evaluate the level of tinakyous of non-O Jews – just talk to them and see whether they quote Karl Marx or JTS or they are simply clueless about Torah. In my humble experience, it is 1:10 in favor of clueless, but maybe my contacts are too educated… And it is not because I am such a kind soul judging everyone ltzad zechus; I’d love to have some high quality apikoires to discuss things but they are rare sightings.

Ujm… sorry, but the chazon ish is just as (actually, more, because he was earlier) big of a towering figure as rav shlomo zalman.

@AviraDeArah

Just curious, in your experience within the frum world, do you find that people (including Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva you’ve encountered) generally consider non-Orthodox today tinok shinshba?

Gadol, similar comment – the gentleman has lots of zehuyot both in the Army and in world politics. I can’t say whether he borrowed some cigars or betrayed coalition partners, this is one big mess there, but you sound like you simply disagree with him and ready to throw any argument at it. We somehow find this permissible in the American context between a real estate developer and a senator from Du Pont. If if that is not asur, I don’t think we should use same brush with Israeli issues and people.

Avira, the psak of the Chazon Ish is a big shvere kulah — according to him. even if somebody grew up frum and does aveiros (any aveiros), he is to be treated as a tinok she’nishbah.
User 176, one is to pasken Halochah alibah de’emes. It has nothing to do with the time of the year! Koach de’heteirah adif? So, according to you, if one opinion says an action is chillul Shabbos, and another – that it is okay, we should pasken le’kukah? Chas ve’sholom.

AAQ: If you review the archives, I’ve never been a big Biden fan although I clearly prefer him to his predecessor. With Netanyahu, its a lot more than a few cigars. While he is wildly adored by a large segment of the right, there is a substantial and growing body of politicians across the right who simply revile him and won’t serve in a coalition he heads. Thats not to say he won’t find 61 votes since he historically has been able to buy off individual politicians with promises of cabinet positions, subsidies to their constituents etc.

Mdd, he isn’t giving license to do aveiros… That’s a misinterpretation