Better Not To Say Kaddish

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  • #1915754
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I recently started saying kaddish for a family member. The person is not someone for whom I am required to say kaddish — I’m doing it because no one else is going to do so.

    However, I’ve been thinking about the idea that a person who is eating non-kosher food should not make a bracha, since a bracha on such food is not really a blessing, but a mockery. That got me to wondering about my saying kaddish. It got me wondering if a person such as me, a certified rasha gamur, should be saying kaddish when not absolutely required to. Surely, there can be no greater mockery than a completely wicked person praising HKBH in this manner. As such, am I perhaps harming the person that I am saying kaddish for far more than helping them?

    The Wolf

    #1915840
    ujm
    Participant

    WM: Have you ever c’v had to say Kaddish for someone halachicly required of you? If not, are you even allowed to say Kaddish for someone not halachicly required of you?

    If you c’v had to say Kaddish for someone halachicly required, would you be asking the same question you ask in your OP? Why would it be less applicable?

    #1915872
    flowers
    Participant

    Wolf; I find your question is appalling!

    #1915909
    Leiby Wasser
    Participant

    I don’t know you, but I would assume that if you are saying kaddish for someone who has no one else to say kaddish for them, you are not such a “certified rasha gamur”.

    #1915946
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    WM: Have you ever c’v had to say Kaddish for someone halachicly required of you?

    Yes. My mother passed away five and a half years ago.

    If not, are you even allowed to say Kaddish for someone not halachicly required of you?

    Question not applicable since the premise is not true.

    If you c’v had to say Kaddish for someone halachicly required, would you be asking the same question you ask in your OP? Why would it be less applicable?

    Because halacha says that you are required to say kaddish for some people, and we find no exception that says that one is exempt if one is wicked. However, perhaps, if not required, one should not say it, so as to not harm the deceased.

    The Wolf

    #1915947
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wolf; I find your question is appalling!

    What else would you expect from a rasha gamur?

    The Wolf

    #1915948
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I don’t know you, but I would assume that if you are saying kaddish for someone who has no one else to say kaddish for them, you are not such a “certified rasha gamur”.

    I thank you for the kind words, but the Chofetz Chaim disagrees with you.

    The Wolf

    #1915959
    catch yourself
    Participant

    Wolf,

    Whatever your shortcomings (which I’m sure are overstated), they are no excuse not to do the right thing from now on.

    This includes the Chesed of saying Kadish as a zchus for the Neshama of your relative.

    #1915960
    besalel
    Participant

    ujm: there is a custom not to say kaddish before you are required to do so but it is not halacha. in fact, al pi din, kaddish is just a prayer and anyone can pray.

    wolf: it says “kol haneshama tehalel yah” that includes you.

    #1915988
    Toi
    Participant

    No Wolf, you should not say kaddish, you are the worst.

    #1915990
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Whatever your shortcomings (which I’m sure are overstated), they are no excuse not to do the right thing from now on.

    Of course not.

    This includes the Chesed of saying Kadish as a zchus for the Neshama of your relative.

    If it’s harming them, then perhaps it’s not the right thing to do.

    The Wolf

    #1915989
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    wolf: it says “kol haneshama tehalel yah” that includes you.

    Of course it does, and I’m not suggesting that I’m exempt from prayer.

    But the question here is this: If my personal prayer is a blasphemy, that only harms myself. Here, I’m saying it for someone else and I don’t want to harm them.

    The Wolf

    #1915994
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    No Wolf, you should not say kaddish, you are the worst.

    Thank you.

    The Wolf

    #1915998
    besalel
    Participant

    wolf: leave it up to god to allocate where your prayers go and whom they benefit. just because you think you are saying a prayer “for such and such” does not make it so.

    #1916011
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    wolf: leave it up to god

    You really should use a capital G when referring to HKBH.

    to allocate where your prayers go and whom they benefit. just because you think you are saying a prayer “for such and such” does not make it so.

    For general prayers, yes. But here, I’m explicitly saying them because someone died and for the purported benefit of that person.

    The Wolf

    #1916056
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Wolf, אין אדם משים עצמו רשע, a person should not consider himself wicked because he will feel that he is not worthy to do teshuva. Look up the Kitzur SA 26 who says that following a good custom of the niftar is more important than saying Kaddish.

    #1916322
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    When using a small ‘g’ referring to G-d, you are referring to an idol ch’v.

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