Best Part of Living in the Five Towns

The mods really listen to me! I’m touched to the core (or as my friends are fond of saying- touched in the brain)

Let’s try again. So, if you were to be invited for a Shabbos meal, would you ignore any women present, not say good Shabbos, not thank your hostess for her hospitality etc? What has gone wrong with our education that we are so insecure as to perceive a simple good Shabbos as anything but innocent?

lesschumras- see squeak’s post/suggestion above

Ames: you have put it very well.

cherrybim, everything you said in your last comment is true. But you were mistaken in your first comment. I used to walk home with him almost every day, and he wouldn’t initiate greetings with females on the street.

OK, whose ready for the big shock?

Concerning this issue I totally 100% agree with keepinentertained, oomis, Sjs, yossia & co.

Saying “Good Shabbos” is not “talking to a girl”, it’s basic mentchlichkeit.

This is one of the few things which really bugged me when I moved to Eretz Yisroel. No one here says Good Shabbos, but back in Brooklyn (at least when I was growing up) EVERYONE did. Old men, young men, old women, young women, children – whoever you’d see would be greeted with a “Good Shabbos”.

That is NOT pritzus.

In my neighborhood growing up we always joked that GS was a pick-up line. Of course it depends how you say it….

Don’t worry Itzik, I stopped saying good shabbos to people here in EY after the first twenty people either ignored me or looked at me like I’m some kind of weirdo who just fell off the moon.

One of my favorite parts of visiting the “alte heim” is saying good shabbos to my fellow yidden – even oomis! 🙂

🙂

I guess if Obama can become president & we can agree three times in a week then we’re ready for Moshiach. 🙂

SJS,

Im not notpashut, but how can you prove #2 without a recipe?

SJS, neat idea. I can’t do beer though because my daughter can’t have it.

moish,

All my kids are underage, but I do use wine in cooking (it makes for delicious gravy). As SJS noted, nearly all the alcohol burns away during cooking anyway. My daughter can’t eat wheat, barley, rye, or spelt because she has celiac disease (gluten intolerance). It’s not exactly the same as an allergy, but similar. Since most beer, and probably all kosher ones, are made from barley, I wouldn’t use it as an ingredient in a dish I’m cooking for my family.

SJS, no, we have no family history of celiac at all. We only found out she had it because she was screened for it due to poor growth. They screened her for all kinds of problems, like cystic fibrosis & Turner’s syndroms, so it was a great relief b”h that the diagnosis required only a change in diet.

Gluten intolerance (I prefer to call it that because as long as one sticks to the diet there’s no manifestation of “disease”) does tend to run in families and is more common in certain ethnic groups (it’s much more common in Ireland for example). I don’t think the heritability (is that a real word?) is well-understood though. Most celiacs I know have multiple first degree relatives with celiac but I know other families like ours, with only one gluten-intolerant member.

anon- got it

SJS,

When possible, I try to either make family meals gluten-free or provide a substitute my daughter likes. If I’m preparing meatloaf or similar foods, it’s easy to avoid recipes containing gluten or substitute as necessary. But when I make pizza or cook pasta, I prepare a gluten-free version for my daughter and a regular version for everyone else. Since gluten-free food is much more expensive than regular, this is a lot cheaper than making gluten-free food for everyone, and after trial and error, I’ve found choices she likes. I buy or bake regular and gluten-free cakes, cookies, and other snacks. Generally I try to make sure that if she can’t eat what we have, she finds her choices as attractive as ours, or better.

I usually buy challah for the rest of us from the bakery, and my daughter eats oat matzah.

She’s been gluten-free for most of her life, and doesn’t remember anything else. The diet is sometimes a challenge, but as long as she keeps to it (and b”h the blood tests show that she has) she’ll have no ill effects b”h. And when I think about some of the differential diagnoses I’m grateful for that.

oomis, that’s it exactly. Even though our minhag is to eat gebrochts in pesach, we’ve gone non-gebrochts since she was diagnosed (I encourage my kids to put matzah in their soup so they won’t forget that’s our minhag). Even though preparing for pesach is a lot of work I love that there’s one week during the year when we all eat the same food, except for the matza. And after pesach I shop the grocery store clearance sales to stock up on cake mixes and macaroons for the rest of the year.

She can also eat rice, corn, and beans, which we don’t eat on pesach. As I mentioned, she also eats oats. Some celiacs don’t but her GI doc said it’s ok, and it’s worked great for her.

Joseph,

I said that when I was growing up it was standard practice. I don’t know about today, but I can tell you that even today if you say good shabbos to someone (male or female) they don’t look at you like you are some nutcase.

ames said “i don’t think it’s right for them to feel comfortable enough to greet a man they don’t know in the street. i’m sorry but i think it’s brazen. it’s not natural”

I appreciate the fact that you do feel somewhat insecure and you are entitled to have those feelings. However, look at your quote. It might not be right for you, but aren’t others entitled to their own feelings, just as you are to yours? Also, we get into problems when we apply labels to people. Maybe this girl grew up in a small town where this was the mihnhag, yet you are labelling her as brazen, which is a pejorative. Isn’t that just as wrong as if someone unfairly labelled you as cold, unfriendly or a fanatic because they felt it wasn’t right for you NOT to feel comfortable enough?

Give it some thought. Thanks

Lettuce, thanx…….hmmm…maybe a bed of rice aint so bad after all.

Ames,

Oy vey!

ames: i like the theory!!!!

I find that when I go to Israel, the Jews there are sometimes not so nice or considerate of other Jews. American Jews find Israeli behavior as tough, insulting, rude, and less civil than the way we behave. But I think that out-of-towners feel the same way about Jews living in New York. Whenever I go out-of-town, I am amazed by the hospitality and warmth that the Jews living there exude. They understand better the value of a Jewish brother or sister.

I agree with ames’ post. Well said. It is sad, however, that the E”Y of today is so very different from the one that I remember from 1971 (no, I have never been able to go back, though I have sent all my children there). When I was in E”Y, people were friendly, warm, inviting, eager to help, and never rude. If a woman got on a bus, several men would get up to offer her a seat. If an elderly person got on, men and women would all get up. Nowadays, I am told you would NEVER see anyone get up even for a pregnant woman with other little kids in tow. If that is so, it is deplorable. I do agree strongly with the idea that out of town Jews feel the need to stick together. There is a camaraderie that you do not always find elsewhere.

“I am not covering up for any man or any other woman – just for ME.”

SJS, I can certainly understand that stance, I like to do things for ME too. However, I consider this issue, in addition to the other, halachik considerations noted, as part of my Bein Adam L’Chaveiro. I daven to Hashem that no one should have an inappropriate thought precipitated by my actions/dress, just as I am careful that my actions and manner of speech make others feel welcome and at ease, when appropriate. The Bein Adam L’Chaveiro component of Tznius is very important to me.

SJS, I think we are in agreement then. The specifics of what we feel are appropriate may differ, but our interests are the same.