Beshert

You ask some sfardi guy with a pom-pom hat. If you give him enough money, he will tell you to come back.

What’s if his family is modern orthodox,

and he is reigious orthodox? Will he get his zivug sheini

or rishon? and if sheini are you telling me sheini would be

a better zivug than rishon?

Want do you you think?

Hi. Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman says in kobetz maamorim that the Rambam holds that since it is a mitzvah to get married it’s an inyan of bechira so the Rambam paskens that the gemora that one’s bashert is decided before one is born is not halacha lemayseh. Rather, one chooses whom he marries.

I never heard of it.

lighitup – Moed Kattan 18b

memo – It’s not about knowing if you chose the right one. The question “Is this the one Hashem had planned for me?” should never be part of the equation in making your decision. It is impossible to know what Hashem’s plans are. As one choshuve person put it “I know people who were told by gedolim that this is their zivug min hashamayim and they got divorced. vaist duch ois divorce is also min hashamayim!”. You have to make your decision based on where you are holding in life. Does this make sense intellectually, hashkafically and emotionally for you in your life right now and can you see a future? If the answer is yes then the rest is up to your hishtadlus in treating each other and the priorities in your bayis properly and, of course, Hashem.

AAAAAAAAAA This topic is so foncusing! everything is bashert! u dont walk down the isle by mistake! just because ur spouce is ur bashert doesnt mean divorce is not bashert! what if i remarry? is that my bashert? or my “other” bashert? was my first bashert a mistake that was supposed to happen? what if i remarry 10 times? if i divorce my first mistake bashert what does that make a second bashert? Help!

R. Mattisyahu’s actual words were along the lines of the “straight way”, as opposed to someone who deviates. The family language was attempt at explanation. Of course what is the “straight way” fr each person is affected by their family, but by other factors as well. He was trying to explain why Eliezer had to check the middos of Rivka even after Avroham had a nevuah that Rivka, Yitzchok’s “bas zug” was born. He mentioned this in passing so I don’t have much more to say to explain his views.

Someone please explain what being Sephardic or Ashkenaz has to do with anything?”

If by “anything” you mean shidduchim, the only relevance is that some sephardic and some ashkenazic minhagim differ greatly (most notably at Pesach time), and that might bother some people, especially if an ashkenazic girl marries a sephardic boy and must take on his minhagim of eating kitniyos.

There are also some social/cultural differences, I have noticed in some friends, but that is still up to the parties involved to see if it will be an issue for them. Some of those differences are more of an issue than others. Many people embrace these differences and very successfully blend the two cultures.

Memo: you are clearly single….

1. “you might not understand but some people have to know if they made the right choice…”

If “getting your basheret” is to you the only way of knowing you made the right choice, then here is a mean secret… you will NEVER EVER know. Last I checked, prophecy went out of style 2,000+ years ago with the petira of chanaya mishoel and azarya.

2. “Some people think and don’t marry any guy they go out with.”

Actually, I would hope that is so for most people, not just some. I would just pray that the things people are thinking about are will “this person make a wonderful spouse for me and I for them”. “Will they be a great parent to our children”.

You know sensible questions like that, and not waste time guessing what was said in the heavens before they where born.

3. “If your happily married you would understand that marrying just any Joe wont work…he’s got to be_______whatever you felt you needed “

As I wrote before, you are clearly single. If you are happily married, you will realize that ongoing work to build, enhance, and improve the realtioship and home in any and every way possible is the key to being happily married. Of course, the more comptatible you are from the beginging the better the starting point is and perhaps will make the ongoing necessary work slightly slightly easier, but that’s all it is.

and here’s a secret. Most normal helathy people could have wonderful marriages with more than one person.

Of course once a person is married the attitdute should be this is THE one for me, but prior to getting engaged/married, that worry “is this person the ONE for me” is a tremendous hinderance to getting there.

NOT he’s got to be etc….

Stop over-thinking it. It doesnt matter.

You like him/her enough to get married? Do it.

memo:

No, I didn’t mean it it was a valid opinion. It is not.

I meant some people misguidedly think so and that it is a harmful belief.

having the perfect marriage has nothing to with your “bashert” it has to do with trying to make it work.

So why is it discourages to daven to marry a specific person or to have everything work out with a specific person who has all the good qualities?

lightitup: because sometimes when you’re in it you don’t realize certain things, and while you think you want this person, it may not be the one that’s GOOD for you. i daven that i should find the one that’s good for me, and that i should recognize it when it comes.

What I am curious about is that some people have a harder time in marriage and feel naturally less compatible (usually personality wise) after some time in marriage and for others, it goes easier. Does that have anything to do with marrying bashert-or not?

Ie. I have a friend who married the first person that seemed good enough for her, but she is having a very hard time with different communication styles and she feels she should have been looking for more and dated him longer-and she is wondering if she married someone who isnt her zivug..

I think everyone has one zivug but its possible for sdomeone to take someone elses zivug by davening for it. But I don’t know how it works when a person is married and then the spouse dies and get remarried. Which one was the real zivug???

In reply to the “mixed marriage” Sefardy-Askenaz, let me enlighten you. Most Sefardim in America are not eating kitniyos. Only certain ethnic groups- ie Persians and Syrians. Moroccans do no eat rice or kitniyos on Pesach. The Minhagim on Pesach of Moroccans are not too far removed from the Ashkenazim. Unfortunately, many people have false preconceived notions about Sefardim going back many generations. The majority of them send their children to the same yeshivos of their Ashkenazi brothers.

Thanks truthbetold

truth be told – Your questions are somewhat valid but, and this is not a knock on you, pointless. The Rambam writes that a person has absolute bechirah. His words are “Neidah sheMaaseh HoAdam beYad hoAdam, VeEin HKB”H Moishchoi…”. Yes, a person has the choice to do wrong or right. However, as Yosef said to his brothers: “Atem Chashavtem Olai RoAh, Elokim Chashova LeToiva”. This means that no matter what we decide to do, Hashem has a way of working it out in a way that works for Him. All we can do is our best. If one will now ask, once we know that we have the choices, how can Hashem possibly know what will choose so that He may work it out, the Rambam writes (and this is a p’sak Halacha) that this answer cannot be understood by human beings. What I am trying to say is that this whole thread about Bashert is kind of moot. Perhaps this is what you meant to say, truth be told. All we can do is make decisions for ourselves and weigh them to see whether they are right or wrong. After that, it is all up to HKB”H. As an example which keeps showing up: Should 2 people get divorced? Only of it is the right thing to do in your situation. But aren’t you supposed to try and work on your marriage? Yes. Divorce is a last resort 100%. You should not take it lightly. But rest assured that if Hashem wants your marriage to crumble, C”V, you could be doing everything right and He will find a way to make it happen. What this means is that we should stop trying to figure out Hashem’s plans and just worry about what we are doing in our own lives. If we don’t, then cases like the example I just gave can make us crazy. Oh, I can’t wait to hear the feedback on this 😉

Take the “Asorah harugai Malchus”, all the blood libels (and ensuing pogroms) that were caused by mechiras Yosef.

Yosef tried to calm his brothers down but, there were consequences for their behavior.

My beef is that certain terms have come from being one of emunah and bitochon to being defined quite contrary to that.

I think you misunderstood me. Of course we are responsible for our actions. All I am saying is that the consequences don’t necessarily come out the way we would think. By mechiras Yosef for example, we would think that the brothers did something to hurt Yosef and therefore he should have been hurt. However, Hashem made those actions which they did turn into the very thing that made him powerful as he had foreseen in the dreams. The fact that the brothers chose the bad thing didn’t change the plan one bit. However, they could have chosen to do other things that were good and the same result would have happened – Yosef would have become a king and they would have bowed to him. Is this any clearer now?