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on shabbos i was with my sisters, neighbors and neighbors’ friends (age range 15-20). the topic got to beha”b and one of the girls said she heard about it in elementary school from a principal that its in case you accidently bumped into a male cousin. i had learned about it in seminary that its for kalos rosh during the Y”T and if s/o ch”v let loose. but i learned it that its just for men. is what she said wrong or just really frum?
basically, it boils down to a few questions. who is behab for (men, woman both) what’s it for, does e/o do it etc.
Behab is the Hebrew word for yeti
and one of the girls said she heard about it in elementary school from a principal that its in case you accidently bumped into a male cousin.
Brilliant. So now, not only did the principal totally make something up, but also gave over a message that you somehow need teshuva for accidentally bumping into your cousin. Nice.
In other news, when a rebbi teaches something wrong in the torah, you are supposed to stab them with a spear, as the gemara says in Baba Basra 21b http://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=23&daf=21b&format=pdf
tab: What does “bumped into a male cousin” mean?
there’s no issur to do teshuvah.
popa: However if he says something wrong in torah while claiming infallibility, he is a navi sheker and must be strangled instead.
popa: However if he says something wrong in torah while claiming infallibility, he is a navi sheker and must be strangled instead.
itche: I’m getting kind of annoyed by your harping on the infallibility bit.
Yes, we know that nobody is infallible, and we know that is not a torah hashkafa.
We also know that there are many times we follow our leaders as if they were just about infallible. For example, when there was a sanhedrin, their decisions would be koveah halacha, even if completely wrong in an objective sense.
But the real issue is, that you are using this as a way of framing the debate over whether rabbonim are bound to follow “gedolim”.
I don’t think this is the proper way to frame it, since I don’t think anybody imagines that rabbonim are bound to follow “gedolim” because “gedolim” are infallible.
You are never going to convince me, if we aren’t arguing on shared premises.
“In other news, when a rebbi teaches something wrong in the torah, you are supposed to stab them with a spear, as the gemara says in Baba Basra 21b”
The pasuk says sword, not spear.
popa is infallible, didn’t you know?
Sakva d’shata rigla.
We also know that there are many times we follow our leaders as if they were just about infallible. For example, when there was a sanhedrin, their decisions would be koveah halacha, even if completely wrong in an objective sense.
Ha gufa. Since they were kovea halacha right and wrong were irrelevant. Which is absolutely inapplicable to our time, when our leaders do not have that power.
popa: I’ve given up on having a serious discussion. Let’s go back to the korban todah
popa: I’ve given up on having a serious discussion. Let’s go back to the korban todah
I didn’t bring a “todah”, because my rav said I didn’t need to bench gomel.
Haha
Ha gufa. Since they were kovea halacha right and wrong were irrelevant. Which is absolutely inapplicable to our time, when our leaders do not have that power.
So maybe that was a bad example.
The point I was trying to make, is that there is a strong element that we trust talmidei chachamim to make the correct decisions, and we don’t take full individual responsibility for every decision we make.
This is apparent every time you ask any rav a shaila in halacha and do what he says, even though you have no idea whether it is correct or not.
But what about pesukei d’zimrah?
But what about pesukei d’zimrah?
My goy quit when I told him we were doing the shirah also, and that I was able to play the yidden so he could be the mitzriyim.
This is apparent every time you ask any rav a shaila in halacha and do what he says, even though you have no idea whether it is correct or not.
Yes. But that is exactly why I ask and follow blindly, because I acknowledge that have no idea. If I am fully convinced one way over the other, I wouldn’t follow blindly.
Yes. But that is exactly why I ask and follow blindly, because I acknowledge that have no idea. If I am fully convinced one way over the other, I wouldn’t follow blindly.
Right. I was pointing out that we can all agree on that concept, and that any issue of dispute will incorporate agreement on this general concept.
Ok. Back to the Todah.
If you shecht the Todah sitting, is it pasul?
Why wouldn’t it be? Any Korban is Pasul if Shechted sitting, isn’t it?
Uvasa el hakohein, v’el hashofet asher yihye bayamim hahem. Can someone go to a shofet that is not b’yamav? Ela lelamed sheYiftach b’doro k’Shmuel b’doro.
Hey I just wrote that on another thread!
Sam2: Are you sure?
Laamod leshares ksiv.
Yitayna: I don’t know if you were responding to me, but I was very much responding to what you said that it is not applicable nowadays.
“Which is absolutely inapplicable to our time, when our leaders do not have that power.”
The issue is not psak halacha. It is listening to the gedolim asher yihye bayamim hahem.
Yes, but shchita is also the only avoda kosher with a zar, in bigdei chol, and with kavanos that would make it pigul during any other avoda. IIRC, sitting is also on the list. I was hoping someone would call me on hte trick question.
what if u shecht the todah on behab? can u eat it?
I agree with R’ Itche on Zar and bigdei chol, but not on Piggul. Sitting is not on that list.
matziv chapper: As of now I’ll say yes. Haven’t decided if I’m fasting or not yet.
midwesterner –
??? ???? ????? ??? refers to the psak of the Beis Din Hagadol. See the Ramban on the pasuk. Yiftach and Shmuel both had the power through their respective Batei Din that Moshe and Aharon did. We don’t.
Wow, that was one of the most random threads I ever read, I think you should all fast BeHaB for this leitzanus
On a more serious note, I have heard that the reason for BeHaB is to do teshuva for any kalus rosh that may have occurred during the Yom Tov when there is more chance for mingling of opposite genders. I have never heard any differentiation between men and women but ont he other hand I have never heard of women doing BeHaB. For that matter, I have never heard of anyone who has actually fasted on BeHaB but I do know that some yeshivas say the selichos, I think that they say that fasting would cause bittul Torah so it’s better for yeshiva guys not to fast but that doesn’t mean you can’t daven.
ok, can someone clarify please? what is BeHaB? I am so confused? Is it Mon, Thurs, Mon? Touching a cousin? A korban? A fast? Mingling?
BeHab? Ohhhh! I thought the person had to go to ReHab! I was thinking why go to rehab for bumping into your cousin? So what is this Behab?
It is a Monday, Thursday, Monday. This year it starts 2 weeks from today. Some fast, some say selichos, some do both, some do neither. It is supposed to be teshuva for aveiros done over Yom Tov.
42 – i believe it starts a week from today, rosh chodesh is friday-shabbos
just wanted to add to YW Moderator-42
Most People nowadays dont actually fast, although there are kehilos that still say the Mi Shebeirach on shabbos for those that do fast.
Also, the slichos is really only said in Yeshivos and kollelim ( I think, correct me if i am wrong)
and sefaradim dont have it at all.
And Yekkes start it later than the others,-about 2 weeks later- because they want the first monday to fall around Kristalnacht
BeHa”b is done twice a year. The first Mon-Thur-Mon of the month of Cheshvon, and Iyar. Since these months come after the big Yomim Tovim in the months preceding them. It is basically selichos (appears in most standard siddurim) that are said by shacharis.
And Yekkes start it later than the others,-about 2 weeks later- because they want the first monday to fall around Kristalnacht
Is that really true?? Sounds a little funny to move a minhag.
Has anyone noticed that the people who fast behab are usually the ones who need it the least?
42: I have a friend who fasts every year. Last couple of years I went to slichos with him and I’m thinking of fasting this year too. If I do you’ll “know” at least one person who fasts.
There are two reasons that Behab is delayed for two weeks. One is that it should not be observed during the happy months of Tishrei and Nisan. Two is to give the olei regel time to get home. Similarly, we wait till 7 Marheshvan to start saying tal u’matar, so that olei regel can get home without getting drenched by gishmei brachah.
Old Man: That’s a nice idea, but cannot be true. Olei Regel wouldn’t be fasting Behab because this Minhag started well after Churban Habayis (I think).
A sheep without a spleen: Although this is the first time i’m hearing of “BeHaB”, yekkes (or anyone else for that matter) dont move a minhag, they just have a different one.
It pushed off to the 2nd Monday of Cheshvan this year. I think this is because Shabbos is Rosh Chodesh so we don’t say the Mi Shebeirach on Rosh Chodesh. I know that the one after Pesach is often pushed off because of Pesach Sheini or something.
Yes, it is illogical to assume that Behab as we know it existed in the times of the Beis Hamikdosh. My suggestion is based on two assumptions:
One is that the underpinnings of the concept of Behab originated in zman hamikdosh, when olei haregel came to Yerushalayim in large (?) numbers and it was likely that afterwards there was a need for teshuvah for reasons that are known. The second assumption is that in the times of the mikdosh there actually was some sort of tshuvah act or ceremony after Succos and Pesach parallel (but obviously not identical) to the later development of Behab.
If this is true, then this post-chag tshuvah would definitely have been postponed until the olei regel arrived home two weeks or so later. And so it remains today.
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