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this is for the thinking thread – for those who want to think and have the ability to do so (i personally am way too tired to think).
For those who have seen or heard of the Truman Show, at which point did the main character have bechira – did he have it the whole time and/or just at the end of the movie. What kind of bechira do we have – what he had the whole time or just when he was “free”?
for those who don’t watch movies, the Truman Show is about an orphaned baby who unknowingly grew up being monitored all the time and the star of a 24 hour reality show. his parents, wife, friends, etc. were all actors. at the end of the movie, he figures it out and escapes to “real” life.
did he have it the whole time and/or just at the end of the movie.
He always did. As Christoff (the show’s creator said):
“If his was more than just a vague ambition, if he was absolutely determined to discover the truth, there’s no way we could prevent him.”
The Wolf
I don’t get it,
why doesn’t he have bechira the whole time, he could’ve killed someone if he wanted to, right?
but was he more limited in his bechira in the beginning – as he couldn’t marry who he chose
We’re all limited by circumstances in our lives. For starters, I could never marry someone born in the year 1700. While I could, in theory, marry someone who lived in Japan, the overwhelming likelihood is that I would marry someone in the same geographic location as I am. Just because Truman has fewer options than the average person doesn’t mean he didn’t have bechira.
Christoff could “throw” a woman at him, but if he personally found her uninteresting, nothing could happen.
The Wolf
As his desire to do things different from what the writers envisioned grew, he was able to go further and further towards free will.
Its like saying does your 5 year old have free will for keeping kosher? Not really. Do you keep ham in your fridge?
do we also have “limited” bechira?
Absolutely. We’re all constrained by numerous temporal, geographic, social, religious, national, physical, mental, and psychological constraints (and probably quite a few others as well).
No matter how hard he tries, a midget won’t make it to the NBA. No matter how much they want, a person born outside the US cannot be president under the current constitution. No matter how much I may decide that I love some girl born in 1700, I can never marry her.
So, yes, our free will is constrained.
The Wolf
Pharaoh, if Hashem had not hardened his heart, would have had no free will.
Malachim, who do have free will, are unable to “choose” not to believe in Hashem as they “see” Him.
BY: There is a somewhat well known Machlokes between the Maharal and everyone else in the following case:
Reuvain decides he wants to kill Shimon. However, it is not Shimon’s time yet. Can Reuvain use his bechira (IIRC the Maharal) or will outside forces intervene, since it is not Shimon’s time?
It’s been a long time since I saw The Truman Show. The scene I remember most is where he got to the end of the “horizon” in the water.
I think it’s more a metaphor for the search for Something More when you think you have everything, than a test of bechira. He had bechira the whole time, but he had to develop the presence of mind to search/think “out of the box”. Someone in jail doesn’t have less bechira than someone out of jail, but their bechira certainly landed them there. That’s another difference – Truman wasn’t “incarcerated” because of HIS actions…
Reuvain decides he wants to kill Shimon. However, it is not Shimon’s time yet. Can Reuvain use his bechira (IIRC the Maharal) or will outside forces intervene, since it is not Shimon’s time?
Forget Reuvain. Can Shimon commit a capital crime (resulting in his execution) if it’s not his time? Can he commit suicide if it’s not “his time?”
Of course, the idea of “your time” is not set in stone either. One’s time can certainly be extended or shortened.
The Wolf
Truman wasn’t “incarcerated” because of HIS actions…
Right. He was simply constrained by his reality… as we all are.
The Wolf
Truman’s reality was controlled by humans, i.e. other people’s bechira. (Which was controlled by the script writers, who were controlled by HKBH!)
First you should define bechira.
This video from Rabbi Akivah Tatz is very informative
http://www.simpletoremember.com/media/a/Understanding-Free_Will-b/
Forget Reuvain. Can Shimon commit a capital crime (resulting in his execution) if it’s not his time? Can he commit suicide if it’s not “his time?”
Yes. The question is strengthened if we involve others. Bechira will allow you to not get what you would have otherwise, but will it do the same for others*?
* Yes, others could include children and spouses. But let’s assume that indirect punishments will get tallied up in the “Schar V’onesh” calculator and used elsewhere.
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