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Haleivi, AYC is innocent of the charges until the mods tell us otherwise. Making up ludicrous analogies based on a guilt we don’t know yet is HURTING AYC, not helping.
I don’t get this. Who cares if AYC is related to kletzky or not? He’s not asking for donations in their name. He’s not offering personal info about them.
If I say my family name is shalit, but it really isn’t, will I be locked out?
Is every lie said here a cause for the account to be locked? What about Popa? He lies a lot. Will he be blocked?
This is an anonymous forum, and I can lie as much as I want as long as I’m not hurting people. AYC said nothing harmful.
So before we even get a response from the mods, a bunch of sn’s are defending ayc’s alleged lie of being a kletzky, saying it’s ok that he/she lied. Do these sn’s know something the rest of us don’t?
Let the Kletzky family decide what is and what is not proper if someone lied about being one of them to gain improper trust.
This is am yisroel chai’s profile. I don’t want to prejudge, but it sure looks like he/she has been involved in a lot of prying of personal info:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/profile/am-yisrael-chai
Between this and the sudden spate of sn’s saying “yes ayc lied but so what!” I’m having a bad feeling about this. I second what Btguy said elsewhere- it’s time to bring in actual law enforcement. These stalkers are running circles around the so-called shomrim and the mods.
I remember, a boocher in yeshiva taana’d he was the Rebbe’s einekel and used that to cut the line and chap more maichel. Somebody found out the boocher was lying, and we took him out back and gave him such a “chaptzem” his hand never worked good again. But he never lied after that. We need a chaptzem here.
I find it interesting – there is a poster named
Babbi Rrog or something like that in this thread.
That name is very similar with some characters reversed to Rabbi Avigdor Miller’s son-in-law.
Enough with the anticipatory-internet-privacy-issue-crime-anxiety. It’s only a few places ahead in the line of anticipatory-falling-debris-from-outer-space-anxiety. Yes, there is something to it, but at this point it is like one person in a room keeps scratching their neck and arms without stop, then gradually other people in the room start scratching a little here and there, and now we are all involved.
I think its important for all of us to remember that sometimes we dont understand something because we dont have all the facts. Sure we can question, but why assume you know the whole story well enough to judge? I include myself in this because I too will jump to conclusions. Maybe we should talk about something else meanwhile, for instance how many of you posters shop at pomegranate on Thursday nights?
smartcookie, you do your name justice, I asked the same question (I’m smart too). Who cares who is related to whom? There’s way too much paranoia going round here about guarding one’s identity. I don’t know Jothar’s connection to Yeshiva World, maybe he owns the place. We understand VERY CLEARLY that YW does not want to be responsible for people meeting through their site, but the Kletzky family will not reveal who is in the coffee room. Fifty people from one family could be here, without anyone being aware of the others. Do I know if my brother, mother, cousin, uncle, nephew, daughter is in the coffee room, I don’t have a clue, and I don’t care to know!
Please stop the paranoia!
BrainwasheD, innocent of what ‘charges’? Just because a moderator wrote something in bold doesn’t make something a crime. Something is very wrong here.
HaLeiVi,
I agree that the scenario I described is not a likely vector to obtain someone’s identity (but not an impossible one). I was working with the object lesson that YW Moderator-42 set up.
Would you agree, however, that there are more likely scenarios where CR users can ascertain the identities of other posters? It has happened several times, such as when cantoresq’s niece figured out who he was (which was benign), or when mosherose allegedly harassed WolfishMusings in real life, because he gave very specific details about a shiur he was attending (certainly not benign).
I am not promoting or agreeing with hysterical suggestions to sacrifice the free flow of posts in the CR on the altar of security such as verified screennames or the like, but I strongly agree with the words of caution, which weren’t excessive. I was also surprised by the posters who objected to even that (claiming it disrupted the flow of threads).
Indeed something IS very wrong here. The FBI arrests tons of adult men every year for saying they’re 13. All they did is talk, what’s so bad with that?
Haleivi, innocent of the charges of sheker for the purposes of geneivas daas, otherwise known as “stalking and impersonation”. It’s barur upashut to everyone with seichel that if guilty, ayc is deservedly banned. By saying “AYC’s guilty but so what”, you are HURTING his case. Clearly the Kletzky family is concerned.
But he’s innocent until proven guilty, and MUST be put on a chezkas kashrus.
You’re telling ME, lolkatz…do you know how expensive good defense lawyers are?
smartcookie:
I don’t get this. Who cares if AYC is related to kletzky or not? He’s not asking for donations in their name. He’s not offering personal info about them.
No, but he is using the name to defend his position. that is called manipulation, a common tactic of stalkers. I don’t mind if someone wants to say that we are being too paranoid, but AYC has basically been saying that there is nothing to worry about and that nobody will hurt you based on what you say in the CR. He then used the Kletzky name to back himself up and make peopel believe him. Perhaps he really is a Kletzky and is just being naive.
And to Avram in MD: +1
To AYC, The Kletzky family that was contacted is concerned about this. All you need to do is give me a way that I can confirm you with the Kletzky family. Otherwise, we have to assume you are a stalker. You must understand that we have the safety of our readers in mind, many of whom are minors. Again, I hope this is all a misunderstanding. I have always enjoyed your posts and would hate for this to have to end this way. I look forward to a successful resolution of this. Thank you very much.
kollol_wife– i found that very disturbing as well. it has only two letters transposed,and i had to do a double take, as he is very chashuv in his own right. also the posts are odd.
though i’m almost never on, i’ve been checking this thread daily to see what the deal with that is. i though maybe its an “insiders’ joke”, but seeing as how no one answered him, maybe not.
As a side note: aren’t we all Kletzkys? I sure felt like one when they had a tragedy. I think all of us Yidden felt like a part of their family…
YW Moderator-42
Occasional 24/6 Moderator, Occasional Joseph, Occasional Dolt~
I can’t understand why this wasn’t handled privately, through emails.
I remain in am yisrael chai’s corner.
I don’t believe “am yisrael chai” is anything other than what he appears to be – a kind and caring individual.
“YW Moderator-42” is doing the right thing by verifying beyond a reasonable doubt that things are OK, but I agree with “always here” that it would be best done via a private email exchange, with the public (including yours truly) none the wiser.
Look at this thread:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/missing-a-loved-one
Look at his caring comments on the “poetry” thread.
The moderators are (correctly, IMO) verifying things, but the last thing we should do is engage in hurtful speculation, innuendo and gossip about one of the nicest most sensitive folks here, who has suffered personal losses. He deserves better.
am yisrael chai-
If you’re reading this, please consider contacting the moderators (or at least “YW Moderator-42”) with the info they’re looking for. They’ll keep your name to themselves – they have done so with me.
I am 100% sure he means you no harm; he asked for mechila on an earlier thread, and is being reasonable and respectful here.
mods, I’m not judging, since there might be more to this than meets the eye, however why couldn’t you just delete that post??? it would have saved alot of trouble…
Jothar,
Evidence of suspicious account would be if you would find a post where AYC asked others for personal information not volunteered his own last name.
For all we know ayc opened a knew account already, and is posting on this thread defending himself.
The reason this was done publicly was in case anyone has had private contact with ayc to be on their guard until this is clarified. If you have been contacted outside the CR by someone from the CR please be very careful and consider notifying the mods so that we can look into it. (Note, I am not saying that it was ayc who contacted you, perhaps it was someone else)
Furthermore, there has been a lot of bad press lately about people who hushed up investigations, leaving the public unaware of the danger in their midst. We felt it would be prudent to alert everyone of the possible danger while making it clear we are being as reasonable as possible.
And I, for the record remain fully in ayc’s camp as well. I am looking to verify his/her credentials and let the CR move on.
Jothar
“Founding Member of CR shomrim and Occasional creator of clickthrough-generating monetizable content
Why delete a post that provides the biggest evidence that a suspicious account is fraudulent (assuming that Haleivi is right that it is fraudulent)?
Furthermore, deleting the post would mean deleting evidence if the Kletzky family or the ywn owner pursues this. “
It should have been deleted before it was posted and aproved for all to see. it was innapropriate on the mod’s part to allow it to go through, on a number of different levels…
Jothar:”assuming that Haleivi is right that it is fraudulent”
what makes an account here fraudulent?
Identity theft is one thing, what’s the fraudulent account matzev now…got to do with a poster refering to his or someone elses name?? like I mentioned before it was highly irresponsible to allow it to go through in the first place.
Mods this stems from NOT reading the posts tharowly before approving them… really if you would have READ it would you have honestly allowed it to go through???…
I guess I’m not the only one that thinks that here…
“icky Guy
Shtick on a Stick 🙂
Syag thank you!
gumball where does it say pots?
MODS: DO YOU ACTUALLY READ THE POSTS YOU APPROVE OR DO YOU ONLY GLANCE THRU CHECKING FOR UNSUITABLE THINGS? I MEAN, WHAT WAS THE POINT OF APPROVING THIS THREAD IF YOU DIDNT TELL ME MY POSTING TOTAL WHICH WAS THE ONLY REASON FOR THE THREAD? LET’S SEE IF YOU RESPOND NOW. THANX. “
I havent looked at this thread in a couple days so this whole thing comes as a complete shock, AYC i believe in you hope they let you come back, I am just horrified at this whole mess and i blame jothar for hes overzealousness FDR was right we have nothing to fear but fear itself.
BrainwasheD, did you think of this or are you getting washed up in the grave portrayals? I would imagine if someone said that they are part of a certain family then they probably are. The same goes for any other claim.
Sometimes, in the heat of an argument people blurt out something to level the score, although it is not really the case. People source references when they know that it is out of context. They often hide the truth from themselves. It is not Geneivas Daas, nor is he the world’s greatest Shakran. Whatever it is, it certainly doesn’t warrant being called a stalker (of all things).
To tell you the truth, I don’t think Jothar was being too straightfoward, either. First he starts a thread calling for Joseph, and says it is only Letzanusa, and even emailed Joseph about it. Next thing we know he puts up a picture cheering his demise, after saying that he Rachmanus.
Also, at first he makes it sound like he happened to have noticed phishing lately and some people even got contacted. Then he tells us that it was an inside job.
I already agreed that it is a worthy cause to warn the young and vulnerable to be careful what they put up. But you see, when you are arguing something, you often throw in different things. I might have just done so myself.
“The Kletzky family that was contacted is concerned about this”
I’m imagining the following scenario:
Mods: Hello, is this the Kletzky family?
Kletzky: Yes it is
Mods: Is Mr or Mrs available?
Kletzky: Who is speaking please?
Mods: I’m calling from Yeshiva World News Online
Kletzky: If this is about Leiby, we’re not giving any interviews
Mods: No no, this is not about Leiby, this is about online stalkers
Kletzky: Hold on…Taa phone call for you
Mr Kletzky: Hello
Mods: Hello, my name is Para ben Noach, I work for Yeshiva World News Online. We have a chat room where anonymous people discuss topics.
Mr Kletzky: What can I do for you?
Mods: One of our posters claims to be related to you
Mr Kletzky: So?
Mods: Maybe it’s true, maybe not
Mr Kletzky: So?
Mods: We’re concerned that this person might be a stalker
Mr Kletzky: What do you want from me?
Mods: Could you find out for me if anyone in your family is posting in our coffee room?
Mr Kletzky: I don’t know what you’re talking about, could you leave me out of this?
Mods: You should be concerned, someone in our coffee room said HE OR SHE IS RELATED TO YOU!!
Mr Kletzky: I don’t know who you are, you are stalking me, goodbye!
moi aussi, lol.
But no, it wasn’t anything like that.
Mod-42 I’m glad you’re amused, so am I…
YW Moderator-42-
Your reasoning is valid – I hadn’t thought of that.
Thank you for explaining.
Goq – “i blame jothar” pas nisht
HaLevei et al. – nobody ever said AYC was a stalker and her account is LOCKED not BLOCKED. All they are asking for is clarification at the request of the Kletzky’s from AYC herself. I have had private contact with AYC and I too am sure it is a misunderstanding, but I truly believe that so much worse damage is being done by posters asking why the CR and other posters have the audacity to say/do things that were NEVER even said. Then other posters are picking up on those misquotes and blowing them bigger. Can’t we just leave it be til we have a clue what we are talking about? The finger pointing and exageration is very damaging and hard to rectify.
Hi, YW Moderator-42. In a previous post you suggested someone is manipulating (by using another name), a common practice of stalkers.
Is it fair to say that manipulation does not always equal stalking?
Basically, someone can come here under any host of names or just one name. The information they glean under one name or 100 names does not, in and of itself, make them dangerous, or the information more revealing. In fact, every single one of us can read that information and a really good stalker could be the one who just reads us and never posts or even signs up for a screen name.
We are crossing the lines of a witch hunt here..
It is really not like us to hold kangaroo courts and vigilante justice. Remember, when any of us are suspicious about anything in life, we add A LOT to the mix of determining someone’s guilt. Once all the facts are determined, the story is never what everyone thought.
It is becoming clearer by the day that AYC is a fraud. The first person to start the spin control for this ” Please share your personal info, you can trust me I’m a Kletzky!” fraud is Haleivi, who is clearly saying that it’s ok to lie to others to solicit personal information. If I had to guess, Haleivi is AYC’s attack-dog account, or ayc is Haleivi’s nice-person stalker account.
Read through AYC’s profile, the pattern of snooping and prying for personal info is clear.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/profile/am-yisrael-chai
Then said account defends people giving him/her private info by saying, “Trust me, I’m a kletzky!” Then when it turns out to be a bald-faced lie, it’s “so what’s a little white lie”?
Stalkers are incredible manipulators and can stoop to levels of evil most normal people can’t imagine.
Jothar, the one thing I agree on Haleivi for this is that you clearly have no clue. You kept on saying that Joseph has done a lot of stalking, and now you think that Joseph can’t stoop so low as to claim to be a kletzky?! You yourself kept pointing out that AYC kept making subtle references to “Joseph” being a tzaddik, when his/her pattern has ALWAYS been to use the standard yeshivish spellings for every other name. You don’t understand evil.
The the other interesting thing is that most of the pro-Joseph posts (the Haleivi attack-dog, this newly-minted ice cream account, et al) come in the middle of the night when working people are asleep. This is a siman muvhak of a stalker. And if you knew that joseph was a stalker beforehand, why did you help whitewash his background with the cheeky “campaign to bring the Joseph”? Jothar, either step up your game or give it up.
Ice… is making a good point if mods allowed ayc post to go through then it can’t be so bad. And if anything the Mod who allowed it should be responsible for it since mods are supposed to know better.
But again I don’t see anything wrong with that post. If I claim to be
Obama and tell you to unblock Joseph will you listen to me?
Everyone has a choice what info we believe from anonymous posts and what not to believe.
I still don’t see what personal info ayc tried to get out of us? Is manipulation without a purpose forbidden here?
Did anyone here read the sefer Chofetz Chaim? Someone has a chezkas kashrus until proven otherwise.
Haleivi, I imagine too that if someone says they are part of a family, they are part of that family. Especially if someone uses that as a proof that he’s trustworthy. So if someone is caught lying on apoint that was used in their defense, that makes them a muchzak shakran and definitely a chashud, and deserves to be blocked, and maybe even prosecuted for fraud. Someone who’s motto is mi Lashem Eilei should understand the concept of titamu chataim ureshoim od einam.
But until the mods tell us, we are MECHUYAV to dan lekaf zechus that this rish’us didn’t happen, that we were not played like a harp by this account. I eagerly await the good news from the mods.
BTGuy, it’s hard to say it’s a witch hunt by the mods when the poster is being every chance to prove his/her innocence. It was a Kletzky who said there is ragalayim ledavar of a chashash fraud, so the mods have every right to be mevarer the matzav. The witch hunt is happening by posters (Lolkatz, Jothar, Haleivi) who are pre-judging and violating betzedek tishpot amisecha. I eagerly await the good news from the mods, and eagerly await more bon mots from ayc.
Jothar~ well what do you expect, Mr. Self-Proclaimed CR Shomrim Chief & IT Security Maven?!?!?
that’s the kind of thing that happens WHEN YOU ‘FRIEND’ UNKNOWN PEOPLE ON FACEBOOK’ (which even most children know NOT to do)!!
& you forwarded it to YWN & the Mods?! > blaming eidel AYC, I imagine!!
GRRR ://
2qwerty, how is someone prying personal data and backing it up with a lie of “trust me, I’m a kletzky” NOT manipulation, fraud, and stalking?
Check the profile- the history of prying personal data is right there for all to see.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/profile/am-yisrael-chai
The problem lies within anyone who takes info posted here seriously. If you believed AYC that he’s a Kletsky,(whether he really is or isn’t), then the problem is YOURS.
You can ONLY protect YOURSELF online. You cannot stop others from doing what they please.
Now now, I’m Bill Gates here. Looking to donate $3,000,000 to my favorite poster here. If you’ll just give me your bank acct info, I’ll transfer immediately.
Hi BrainwasheD. I agree. The mods are just moderating and all that is within the normal context whether we like being “moderated” or not.
Hi Jothar. Seriously. You are like a “one note Johnny”. You are obsessed. I wonder if you are using this issue for OUR benefit or for your own benefit. You have a lot going for you, but sociopaths who overtake chat rooms and blog sites and stuff like that do so because they have a trait in they dont know where a healthy boundary line is where they end and the other person begins. In other words, you remind me of that by giving yourself the privilege of being in everyone’s grille and putting your fingerprint of justice on every thread you are on, and tell us it’s ok because it is in the name of justice. It’s just selfish and rude. Even a Chief of Police would not make a community feel so harassed in the name of providing safety. Are you providing safety even? Or are you bending and stretching the definition because you are obsessed and cant stop? I say this because you have to know many of us find this theme a drag to have put into our faces several times a day, and your reaction is to plug full speed ahead.
I’ve been extremely busy lately so haven’t had time to read all the posts here but I got the jist of what’s been happening with AYC’s account being blocked.
A few things I want to point out:
1. I don’t understand why people assume that someone who posts thoughtful considerate and kind posts can’t be a stalker. Do you think stalkers and molesters look like monsters? They can be people who seem like the sweetest nicest people on earth, meaning that you need to ALWAYS be careful, even when dealing with super nice people. I am not talking specifically about AYC – I just mean that the general attitude that nice strangers can be trusted not to be stalkers troubles me.
2. IMHO the fixation on Joseph and AYC is misplaced. Even if they are both innocent of any criminal wrongdoing and even if Joseph plays his games out of boredom but wouldn’t hurt a fly, there could very well be other molesters/stalkers who use this site. Personal info should be kept private regardless of the status of these 2 people.
3. Being dan lekaf zchus does NOT mean that we should endanger minors until someone is PROVEN to be a stalker. If there is reasonable doubt, they should be blocked. That’s why I credit the mods for blocking AYC’s account as a precaution and I don’t understand those who complain that the mods should have been dan lekaf zchus and left it open. Would you let your kids go to the home of someone about whom there is reasonable doubt of his being a creep but no solid proof? With AYC there seems to be reasonable doubt and until he/she can give satisfactory answers the mods did great work.
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