- This topic has 55 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 4 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
May hashem continue giving them tons of future success!!!!!
You think Baltimore is growing chasidish quick? Try Lakewood. Entire large development neighborhoods there are being built as satmar, belz, slonim, etc…. With hundreds of houses each thus turning Lakewood into Brooklyn NJ and bringing the beeping and crazy driving straight from Brooklyn NY.
So Baltimore finally got Chasidishe schechita?
Brooklyn is way to expensive for anyone to afford…
How do you think a kollel family can afford it?
Lakewood and especially Baltimore is meant for these families to move to!
And Amen to FreddyFish!I don’t find any joy in the Baltimore frum community’s ever increasing move to the right.
Yes Baltimore has chassidishe shechita.
takahmamash -“I don’t find any joy in the Baltimore frum community’s ever increasing move to the right”
WHY? I do!
It should have been a Chasidish community when the time Willy became Chasidish!takah: I find much joy in it. And it isn’t just Baltimore, it is the Orthodox world throughout the US, Israel and Europe.
It sure beats American Orthodoxy’s straddling the left in the prewar and immediate postwar periods.
I don’t know much about the Baltimore frum community, but I know from consistent news postings (and married friends who have moved out of there) that they are competing for Detroit for the most dangerous, declining, scandalous cities out there. For a frum family with kids, would I say front lawns and store parking lots are as safe or clean as those in Lakewood or Monsey?- I’d say not
TGI – A. You’re making lashon hara on a community, and during the Three Weeks, no less. B. I resent your remarks personally, since I live in Baltimore now (after surviving too many years in Brooklyn). The frum neighborhoods in Baltimore are safe, friendly and welcoming to newcomers. The crime rate in NW Baltimore, where the frum community is located, is low, and we have have two neighborhood patrols who work to keep it that way. Granted, there are other neighborhoods in Baltimore which have trouble with violent crime, but those are in the inner city, West and East Baltimore, not here.
And no, the Baltimore community is not being captured by the right-wing. The MO, centrist and yeshivish are continuing as usual, and the Chassidishe kollel is just adding on to the right wing without shlepping the rest of us anywhere. As far as I know, part of the reasoning behind the new kollel was to give Chassidim here a choice broader than Satmar or Lubavitch, who were the only groups here before. And Ner Israel provides a great anchor for the general frum community, so don’t look for the rest of us to be overwhelmed any time soon.
Especially since the greatest feature of Baltimore is achdus. The different groups all work together and we feel that we are one community, not a salad bowl of the different groups who originated in Europe. We have a great array of volunteer groups to support the community, too.
If you are a friendly, non-snarky community-minded person and want a place where you can live in harmony with your neighbors, Baltimore is for you. I couldn’t move back to the Middle West, but Baltimore is very much like it. If you like to make snide remarks and ridicule other people and communities, please stay where you are. You won’t feel at home in B’more.
takahmamash,
Is it “increasing move to the right”
or increasing move to being more insular that is a problem?Health,
Baltimore used to be a mix of Lithuanians and German jews
In the ’20s and ’30s it was usually dubbed the Jerusalem of America
as it was a more traditional albeit firmly non Chassidic community than well nigh most ,especially the boroughs of NYC.It was always firmly non chassidic
I was born in Baltimore. I grew up there, and lived most of my life there. Back in the 70s and 80s there was an active, large MO community there. There were shules outside the Park Heights/Greenspring areas, most notably in Randallstown. There were more community and shule Rabbis that saw beyond the chareidi worldview.
The frum community in Baltimore has become much more closed. There are less than a handful of shules that still retain any sort of MO mindset.so are all communities becoming majority chassidish including the most litvish area lakewood?
Midwest 2 +1
I could not have said it better myself.Midwest2 – Nicely said!
It’s funny how Midwest2 is worried about loshon hora about Baltimore when as recently as a few days ago he had no compunctions doing the same about Lakewood, Brooklyn and Monsey.
takah – The Yekkish-Litvish stream is still the strongest, the Chassidish are just adding variety to the mix. In terms of shuls, ye,s the chareidi influence is growing, but there is still a strong MO presence, although usually more in Pikesville and the county. In terms of number of shuls, there are probably more chareidi, but those are smaller than the average MO shul. Since Rambam school closed, though, the schools are definitely skewed right, although Or Chadash Academy is beginning to fill the gap.
The most important characteristic of Baltimore in these days is its diversity, and the willingness of people to get along with others of different groups. MO members are prominent in many community projects, and efforts are made to include everybody, regardless of hat/yarmulkeh/sheitel type.
“regardless of hat/yarmulkeh/sheitel type”
Or lack thereof?
Joe, the halacha is that you have to wear a head covering for davening, eating, making a bracha, etc. It’s not technically required all the the time. Now it’s a binding minhag, but it hasn’t always been. Back in the day a lot of the frum professors at Brooklyn College carried their yarmulkehs in their pockets during lectures and in the halls, because many people discriminated against the Orthodox, and Jews could be forbidden to wear yarmulkehs during working hours, too. And there was a time in this country when some of even the most Orthodox women didn’t cover their hair. It only really became accepted by all after frum refugees started coming here after WWII.
Aren’t you glad that you live today, when the Civil Rights Movement and Johnson’s Civil Rights Act made it illegal to discriminate on grounds of religion as well as grounds of race? We’ve come a long way since 1960. In fact, we’re downright spoiled. Case in point: look at all the fake chumetzdik foods that are kosher for Pesach – like we couldn’t go eight whole days without eating pizza or something. In fact, when I was really young there was no kosher pizza because no one had figured out how to make the right kind of cheese kosher – without using rennet from animals. Yes, we have the tuition crisis, but at least we have schools, something which was built up slowly and with mesirus nefesh over the years.
“And there was a time in this country when some of even the most Orthodox women didn’t cover their hair. It only really became accepted by all after frum refugees started coming here after WWII.”
And there was a time in this country when some of even the most Orthodox men and women wore shatnes. And then along came that pesky frum Holocaust refugee from Vienna after WWII, Joseph Rosenberger, and started Shatnes Labs in Williamsburg and it only then really became accepted by all to not wear Shatnes.
Like the m’doraisa prohibiting wearing Shatnes there’s also a m’doraisa prohibiting married women from going out with their hair uncovered. Even if in America, before the gedolim from Europe came to these shores and set things straight, there was widespread violations of these prohibitions.
IITfT -“Baltimore used to be a mix of Lithuanians and German jews”
You so missed my point! NY was just the same as Ballimor. When the Chassidim came over, after WW2, they settled in NYC & and also Montreal.
Before WWII Torah Judaism in America was desolate.
Baltimore is cheap (homes in good, safe, frum neighborhoods for under $150K). The local government is run by goyim who leave us alone, at worse, and are often friendly – unlike New York politics which are dominated by secular Jews who wish we would go away. The addition of an Hasidic Kollel “planted” a good number of people in the community. But at present there is still only one shul of Baal ha-Basim where the announcements are in Yiddish. The real test for growth will be if frum businesses start moving to Baltimore (other than one’s that solely sell to frum people, similar to stores such as “B&H in New York).
Akuperma-“Baltimore is cheap (homes in good, safe, frum neighborhoods for under $150K).”
-theres such a thing as safe neighborhoods in Baltimore? What neighborhood would you compare it to in NYC?
akuperma: The days that secular Jews governed New York are long gone. These days the frum are a powerful voice in both the city and state level in New York. The entire New York State annual budget was held up a couple months ago until they could insert a provision into it protecting Yeshivos from governmental interference mandating specific secular studies requirements, to take a recent example. The governor has multiple times vetoed legislation that the little village of Kiryas Yoel were the only ones objecting to. The mayor of America’s largest city routinely caters to the needs of the frum community, including having eliminated a city health department regulation on Bris Mila, not to mention many financial benefits granted.
@Akuperma
You cant really find houses for under 150k anymore, I don’t know what century your living in…
As far as I am concerned, houses in B’more in the 21st century are around 300-450 Grand.Takahmamash, it is no coincidence that the term ” right” defines who we are as being right. With all due respect to MO , it is the ” right” that enables communities to flourish. It is the ” right” that have established chesed organizations from Hatzolah Misaskim Bikur Cholim RCCS and so much more. It is the ” right” that typically have lots of children so that tradition is not lost. It is the ” right” that care more about tradition than anyone else. It is the ” right” that have Chabad houses all over the world and spreading Yiddishkeit. It is the ” right” that pushed the Daf Yomi program to become popular. Now that I mentioned all of that what has the ” left” and MO done to promote any of the above?
akuperma – the first part of your post is 100% accurate 🙂 but we have plenty of frum businesses here already, and except for the niche ones they sell to everyone. And our businesses are run strictly according to Choshen Mishpat, with the oversight of the local Vaad Harabbonim. No shtick – as I occasionally saw in NY. We only want people who will uphold our local values, which are strictly Shulchan Aruch, no finagles allowed.
As for Yiddish in the shuls – probably a majority of the people here don’t speak Yiddish, or don’t speak it well. There are many whose ancestors have been here for generations, many who come from other OOT communities, and many baalei teshuvah. Tthe only people I’ve met who speak only Yiddish are the elderly from Russia, most of whom don’t go to shul.
Baltimore is a great place, and it’s very different from the NY area. Each to his own and all should flourish!
Dear Other Person: Those are for very large or new houses, probably closer to Baltimore County (and that is very important, especially to people who want to make use of the Baltimore County Public School system, which many modern Orthodox do). However the Hasidic population in Baltimore is concentrated in the area between Glen Avenue and Clark’s Lane, along Park Heights Avenue, which consists of older housing stock which is where the inexpensive housing is to be found. While 20th century houses are be definition “not new”, they are a lot cheaper the the newer “McMansions” – and they are well situated for those who prefer living in a neighborhood full of people wearing a kapotes.
mild edit
Though I definitely know Baltimore and have plenty of relatives/friends there. I don’t live there so I cant argue with people that live there… What I am hearing though is that houses there are going up, including the Park Heights avenue area.
gitmeshige-“Now that I mentioned all of that what has the ” left” and MO done to promote any of the above?”
-You do understand that there are several levels in Modern Orthodox right? Those who call themselves “modern orthodox liberal” or “Open orthodoxy” are pretty much flawed in their understanding of what “Orthodox” means.There is no such thing as being orthodox but on the other hand doing whatever you want and lowering Torah standards to your liking.
On the other hand their are many erliche Yidden who just dont fit into any category and dress casual (as in not black and white), and maybe dont wear a black hat on Shabbos so people will view them as “modern” or “modern orthodox”. That does not mean their values are modern at all. Its funny there’s a new term called MO Machmir. But this term is very good way to describe Yidden who fit into this category as I described. They are basically “MO” but “machmir” meaning they are machmir on Torah values and are actually orthodox in their ways. Its basically a lighter version of litvish/yeshivish style (to some extent) just without the label.ToP -“What I am hearing though is that houses there are going up, including the Park Heights avenue area.”
Whatever it is – It’s still a lot cheaper than Lakewood or Monsey!
TOP – the prices are going up in part because the Chassidishe Kollel and other people are moving in. Rabbi Tesser and others have established new young vibrant shul’s. The neighborhood was on the edge of decline only a few years ago. That being said you can still buy houses in Park Heights for under $180k. Brand new houses on Fords lane are $250k. On the other side of the community the houses are more like 350-450 you should come to Baltimore now, buy up a lot of property, and get in on the ground floor. The only directions at property values are going is up! Don’t forget that we have for ambulances with Hatzolah. A solid Eruv etc.
Yup, in general houses are going up, but there is still a lot of less expensive housing in the Upper Park Heights corridor. And there is a whole area of very nice garden apartments which is virtually a frum colony in the Pickwick area, the Fountainview on Ford’s lane, and others. There are also new frum-size town houses being built. The issue is that frum families are bigger and need more bedrooms, so there is also a lot of renovation/addition going on. (There are, of course, very expensive houses close to the northern and western county lines, but that’s only one choice, for those that can afford it.) It’s definitely a frum-family-friendly area 🙂
ice – chill a bit. We don’t need to go around pasting labels on each other. Around here, “Where do you daven?” is all the identification most people need. Let’s all remember that it’s the Three Weeks and we have to remember what destroyed the Second Bais HaMikdash and stay far away from it.
Midwest-I think you completely did not get the post.
The reason Chasidim are spreading out to frum communities far and wide that they’ve never been in before and becoming a huge portion of the frum population all over the place, is because they have a much higher birth rate and have become over the last 25 or so years close to, if not above, a majority of the American Orthodox population. Meaning them alone, without even counting other Chareidim like the yeshivishe communities.
Can you recommend any resources (organizations, individuals, web sites) that would be helpful to someone who wants to relocate to Baltimore, and find reasonably-priced housing within walking distance of shuls?
It’s true that the Baltimore is moving more to the right – that’s also true of most frum communities in America. Those in the MO community who are bothered by this trend should do some brainstorming to figure out ways to keep their communities vibrant and inspiring, and encourage serious Torah learning that will produce future MO rabbis.
Still, I think Baltimore, as an “out-of-town” community, is a pretty inclusive place for MO families, and I hope there are still shuls there where no one cares what color your shirt or hat is, or whether you wear one at all (I mean the hat 🙂@DovidBT
Go to Zillow.com or any real-estate website.
There is two main Jewish communities there, Park Heights Ave. area and the Yeshiva area. On Park Heights Ave. there are plenty (maybe close to a dozen even) of Shuls, and by Yeshiva Lane there is the famous Ner Yisroel.The best thing Baltimore has going for it is Rav Yissoschor Frand.
The Yeshiva Lane community isn’t really relevant. You can only live there if you are in the Ner Yisroel kollel and there’s a long waiting list.
DovidBT – best contact that I know of is CHAI – Comprehensive Housing Assistance, Inc. It started out years ago when the Park Heights area was starting to change, with the goal of keeping the community affordable for Orthodox Jewish families, and has grown steadily over the years as a resource for home owners, renters, and now seniors, helping seniors age in place. Upper Park Heights is a stable, racially mixed neighborhood of mostly Orthodox Jews and middle class African Americans, who cooperate to keep the community safe and welcoming.
CHAI is now an affiliate of the Associated Jewish Charities. The director is frum and the organization is basically oriented to frum families. There are also resources and listings for renters.
Their website is chaibaltimore.org and their phone is 410-500-5300. Their website has lots of information about the neighborhood and their services, and if you call/email they can give you referrals to other organizations in the area. Some of the staff (including one of the receptionists) are frum.
Good luck!
“There is two main Jewish communities there, Park Heights Ave. area and the Yeshiva area.”
You’re off by one – there are three main communities. You missed Greenspring. There may even be a fourth; as I understand, more and more frum people are moving further down Smith Avenue, beyond the ABC streets.Park Heights. Greenspring. Ranchleigh. Belzer homes yeshiva lane. Dumbarton. The community of 4200 heimishe families is growing. Chai is now less frum oriented and more old age oriented. Director is MO. The best idea is to come for a Shabbos and walk around.
There was an article somewhere that some yeshivas in Brooklyn were in danger of closing because there arent any kids anymore, As Brooklyn has become too expensive for young marrieds with kids
Not sure why “chassidish” is equated with “move to the right” It’s certainly a great (profitable) perception for the haimish food businesses but it is false. That is unless ones idea of “to the right” is limited to wearing a strimel and bekisheh.
By me MO is also frum. Commitment to Torah and mitzvos is the criterion. What you wear on your head is irrelevant. In Baltimore We’re one community.
BTW, CHAI is not “less frum,” whatever that means. The senior programs are an add-on. The focus is still on home ownership for famlies. If you’re interested in buying, they have great workshops and listings for potential homeowners, plus listings for rentings.
B-moreMaven – Yes, come for a Shabbos and just walk around, but get a little background first so you know where you want to go.
(No, I’m not on the CHAI staff :-), but I’ve volunteered there. They also have a volunteer day twice a year for people to help out those in the community who can’t do their own yard work or minor repairs, which brings together all the different groups in Park Heights.)
BM -“Park Heights. Greenspring. Ranchleigh. Belzer homes yeshiva lane. Dumbarton”
What happenend to Randalstown & around TA? And why didn’t Frum people move to the Mount Washington area?!?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.