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Should I be speeding up my shmona esrei in my ten person backyard minyan? Or does my avodas Hashem come first?
What’s this have to do with a backyard minyan? Often minyanim in shul, also, only have exactly 10 or 11 people davening in the Minyan.
The question would be the same then. And it is a rather common scenario. Nothing novel about the question.
If you have a small number of daveners, people should be sensitive to others who need to leave and not linger in their own personal Shmoneh Esreh. Also, the chazzan need not wait for everyone to finish their shtiller S.E. Ask your Rabbi whether the number needed to start Chazaras Hashatz needs to be 6 or 7.
Sarah
Love that your backyard minyan waits for the women to finish shemoneh esrei.
“Or does my avodas Hashem come first?”
Avodas Hashem is always first. sometimes Your avodas Hashem may be to not inconvenience other people sometimes it may mean daven longer. Weighing whcih aspect of your avodas Hasehm trumps the other is your question.
however I don’t think you provide enough details to answer
Sarah S: Is it a minyan of woman or a minyan of men and women are there too? If its a minyan of men spend as much time as you want.
DR. E: my rov holds that lchatchilah for the Shatz to wait for 9 to answer Amein and Kedusha.
lot112: And b’dieved, what’s okay?
This whole inyan is not a l’chatchila situation, so my Rov paskened 6.
Dr. E: He thinks that if something is bdieved already, it makes no difference to add another bdieved on top of the bdieved?
My Rov doesn’t allow a bedieved…..wait for 9.
@Dr. E
As far as I can tell/remember, the only reference in M”B to 6 or 7 re a minyan, is regarding beginning the entire service, not just chazoras hashatz (I think it was around siman 56 or so). But the he, (as well as all poskim) are quite clear elsewhere throughout M”B that one may only begin chazoras hashatz with 10 men able to answer (incl. the chazon himself). Though he does quote a shas hadchak minhag of relying on a child holding a Chumash to make the 10th person.But, I’d like to stress that the 10-men threshold, is the MINIMUM when one is allowed to start. But even that is not l’chatchilah. Ideally, the chazon should wait for majority (rov) of the minyan to be ready to answer.
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Regarding @Sarah S’s original question though, I think M”B also addresses this and says it’s best not to inconvenience others, as @ubiquitin said very nicely.
As a matter of common courtesy and separate from the question of whether its a matter of “lchatchilah” versus “bdieved”, if one is aware that w/o his participation there is no longer a minyan, one should daven at a pace consistent with the other daveners, even if its a bit faster than his usual cadence. Likewise, I don’t recall ever seeing our chazan/shaliach tzibur (or gabbai who sometimes serves as a surrogate) , look towards the varbeshe section of the shul to be certain that most of the women daveners have completed the Amidah.
Backyard minyanim are only a few months old, and already there are politics?! Soon there will be a split and they will make a breakaway minyan in the back yard next door..
Dear Shady,
Exactly. While a minyan is just a number and could be ‘joined’ and have ‘a majority’, Teffilah b’tzibbur is an activity and would need the full group’s participation. It was very unpopular here, when I brought it up in regard to porch minyanim.Do you need 10 male Jews or 10 religiously literate Jews? An am haaretz can help make a minyan even if they don’t know how to respond
I dont think the oilam here understands what lichatchilah and bidieved means. its not a plan A and B. You cant just decide to do bidieved. Only AFTER you did something WITHOUT realizing its not lechatchilah do we say that you are motzi and dont get an aveirah. Dr E there is no such thing as a bidieved situation. bidieved is only after the fact. thats the literal meaning.
If you have 10 Jewish men above 13 one of them can be sleeping and he is counted towards the minyan as per Shulchan Orach Orach Chaim 55:6
With concern about going to a large minyan due to Covid 19 backyard minyan may still be needed. Once every is back to work then maybe we should fade out these minyans
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