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Fans who gathered to watch two Victoria-based rivals play in one of Australia’s top sporting events are partly to blame for a more than 50% increase in the state’s daily reported Covid-19 cases, local officials said Thursday.
Hmmmmm….. how did so many people get past security and police? Seems the Yidden davening on Rosh HaShana were treated a little differently?
Baltimoremaven: different parts of Australia have different rules.
exactly!!
also the local officialss are quick to place the blame of them and get away with itEsav Soneh L’Yaakov.
Why is that so hard (for some) to understand?
Australia is a nebach country and this is what happens
Still NO EXCUSE for the yidden to break the rules. Why can’t frum people follow rules?
> Why can’t frum people follow rules?
this is an oxymoron according to some poskim.
YO: I know, right? Just like those nasty Jews broke Greek law in the Chanuka story when they learnt Torah against the law. And those nasty Soviet Jews broke the law by having secret synagogues in contravention to the law. Just like those nasty Australian Jews.
Ujm, yes, Jews are ozim among nations, but it works out well only if we channel it through Torah (Beitza 25). We can claim superiority of our tradition over a reasonably government advice only if we seriously and fully deploy the wisdom of our tradition. In this case, you are mis-using merits of kedoshim who fought Syrians and Soviets to make a cheap shot.
I am unaware of any rules in the USA that forbid Yidden from learning in Yeshivos, learning Torah, davening, or doing pretty much any standard mitzvah. Can someone enlighten me?
lowerourtuition11210:
“different parts of Australia have different rules.”
this was all in melbourne
yabia omer:\
“Still NO EXCUSE for the yidden to break the rules. Why can’t frum people follow rules?”
1. dont judge you when you arent there
2. melbourne has had the most days in lockdown of the whole world and very few cases compared to other places
3. with lockdown going so long, everyone is breaking the rules and its not “frum peope” only at all
4. the incedint that happened on rosh hahshana(https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/2006362/drama-in-melbourne-cops-place-siege-on-illegal-rosh-hashanah-minyan-during-lockdown-it-felt-like-nazi-germany.html) later the government took away all fines and said that it was legel as it was a support groupYes, right, Yidden should stay home forever, not daven with a minyan forever because of the disgusting, rights stealing governments making draconian rules that only certain groups have to follow.
During all the times in history when goyim, or even Jewish Jew haters, used all kinds of excuses to restrict the rights of Jews to practice Judaism, and the Jews resisted, we have the same kinds of people within us bashing the brave Jews who practice Judaism under any circumstances. These Jewish sheep among us always defended and defend the “rules” made by these reshuim and swallow the bait of seemingly “valid” excuses why these “rules and laws” squashing basic human and religious rights are enacted.
Just think on which side of history your ideoligy places you on. If you defend the “rules” that strip the rights of people who want to serve Hashem, to daven with a minyan, hear shoifer with a minyan, learn Torah in the correct setting, then you are on the wrong side, period.
Besides for the fact that these “rules” are absolutely ridiculous. Shutting down the country forever is a breach of human rights and dystopian rule. The minute the country opens and crowds mingle covid spreads like wildfire so shutting down countries does not make covid disappear. Covid will be around forever, it should be treated like the flu and no one has a right to indefinitely and continously restrict people from living normal lives.
A famous litvish rov (i forgot the name) spoke to the litvish comunity and said they shouldent go to minyonim cause of chilul hashem. when someone explained to him the situation that most people are not keeping the restrictions he said it would not be a chilul hashem
i always thought australia was a continent not a country
Nochum, given that you don’t remember the Rav, you probably were not there when you heard the story. Also, if the Rav did not know what people do outside, this tells you something about he himself behave. How about you call that Rav and ask – whether it is mutar to be not careful, and also – whether it is mutar to be careful.
dugi, did you not study geography in school? It is both a nation and a continent. I don’t have time to look up the definitions of both, since you obviously don’t understand them. You can google.
Amil, I think they are from Australia, they were just making fun of those who aren’t.
always ask questions the rav was not from america and i read in some panflit given out by th local litvish community
Dugi a continent is in a country
You can often be mistaken by visuals: you go outside or to a shul and you see people not following restrictions. At the same time, you are not seeing people who did not come. Maybe this is why tallis has so many numerical connotations – do not follow your eyes, learn how to count statistics instead.
whether it is a continent or a country or a long-term prison, here is what the in-MATES are saying (as of Aug 31):
Actions to prevent the spread of Covid-19, like wearing masks in crowds and practicing social distancing, should be required even after we achieve the vaccination targets
agree 65%We should not be easing Covid-19 lockdown restrictions until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated
agree 58%So, it sounds like your litvishe rov was mis-informed and majority of population supports lockdowns. Sadly to make a minor mistake of Hillul Hashem. Hope this is not the Rov’s problem, but of people who tell stories about him.
always ask question “agree 65%…. agree 58%)
65 and 58 respectively on a survey of probably 400 people on a probably left wing news site which has left wing viewers.
Any survey wont change me if i see something different on the streetThere are numerous protests all over Australia and they would be more with bigger attendance, however the police litterally chase them away and arrest many of these protesters. Dissenters are being locked up , investigated and harassed. It is literally a police state. That the media goes along with it and presents their own “statistics” not rooted in reality is expected, the media support the stripping of human rights, that’s what liberals stand for these days unless we are talking about the lqtbq agenda.
But even were the majority in favor of these lockdowns, it means absolutely nothing. Hashem created the world so that we serve, not stay locked in our homes for almost a year as they are in Melbourne and other parts of Australia. It is absolutely not a chillul Hashem to go daven with a minyan. These are the brave men fighting for freedom against the vicious regime.
Melbournian, I did do exhaustive research.
Surveys of 400 randomly selected people are generally reliable if done by a professional outfit and are not abused for political reasons. Abuse is usually in the form of leading question or a question asked in context of other questions. This one looks legit at the first glance.
But if you are skeptical, you should present counter-arguments. Could you find a different survey?
could you present your visual observations in the context? for example, compare number of people in public transit or in the stores comparing with pre-pandemic.correction: did NOT do exhaustive research
Google has community mobility report by country and regions over time
here are current levels comparing with pre-pandemic
you can see how much lower AU indices are for retail, transit, and work comparing with USA and Israel.
Baruch Hashem people are still eating, though.retail grocery transit work
AU
Capital Ter -43% -5% -75% -53%
New South Wales -36% +4% -69% -41%
USA
FL -13% -2% -27% -22%
NJ -7% +9% -27% -28%
IL -6% +3% -22% -25%Israel
Central l -2% +18% -14% -17%
Jerusalem -7% +9% -7% -26%AAQ:
i am noit basing this on a survey, i am basing this on what i iknow as fact as i see it every day when i walk down the street etc
in fact the premier (head of state) of victoria was just fined 400$ by police for breakijng his own rules twice on camera!!Melbournian> i see it every day when i walk down the street
As I mentioned, you see those who are outside, but not those who are not. When I stay OOT (my town), I see lots of people who moved here from denser cities. I did not see them in the city.
I see people coming to a minyan, some careful, some not. Then, I called one guy who was not coming. He said that he is not coming because he had a contact with a sick person. I would not know that he is following rules unless I would have called.
So, again – do you see same number of people in the street as pre-pandemic? The mobility numbers I posted (maybe you did not yet see my 2nd post) point that Australians is WAY more restrictive than Israelis and Americans.
aaq:
youre right, less people are on the street.
the pioint is we r on our 6th lockdown and everyone is sick of it.
so while most people might not be breaking the law, they woukd understand if others doaposhiteyid, I understand your point, still 58% agree with “We should not be easing Covid-19 lockdown restrictions until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated”. Do you think that these people are going to sit in lockdowns themselves and welcome others who ignore the rules? I am not there, so it is hard to judge,
aaq:
for the past 3/4 lockdowns i have been going to minyanim etc.
even tho i have been doing that, if i were given a survey if we should stay in lockdown till 0 cases, i would say yes even tho i myself was breakinmg the rules and i hate lockdown.
thats because in lockdown less of a risk.
so if others are like me..aposhiteyid, here in US we had such lockdowns for very short time period early on.
I saw R Heineman (Baltimore) being asked whether several families can stand in their backyards and daven together. This would be within rules and the questioner was concerned whether this will constitute “one minyan”. The Rov answered that a passerby may not see a difference between standing on one yard or many yards, he’ll just see Jews doing something. As the result, he opined, when there will be a lack of ventilators, someone might decide not to give it to the Jewish person.
Rov was using accumulated century of Jewish wisdom of how non-Jews may be suspicious of us. You are looking at the sunny side of a modern society, expecting everyone to look favorably at you. It might be so for a moment – until it is not.
aposhiteyid,
Based on the criteria you present, which is having zero active Covid cases. Do you think we will ever achieve that, if yes, based on the past year or two, what is the suggested time frame, and do you think it makes sense to put life as we know it on hold for that period of time?
2scents:
by now in australia probably not as cases are very high and the goverment of some states has dropped covidn zero goal but before delta, yes it was possible as it did happen.
even in victoria which has had most lockdowns/most frequency of cases there was more than 2 months with 0
so it was possibleIt is possible. As my daughter said 1.5 years ago: “if everyone in the country stayed at home for 2 weeks, this will be finished”. Then, she corrected herself “the whole world”…
But the question also is: if a reasonable democratic government selects a policy, are we allowed to disregard it because we disagree with part of it. If there is, say, a vaccine mandate, are we allowed to forge a document to go do a mitzva?
The question is really “what is the right thing to do”, not “what we can get away with”. Because, if Hashem does not agree with us, there is no point in trying to get to the minyan when shaarei shamayim are closed.
“But the question also is: if a reasonable democratic government selects a policy, are we allowed to disregard it because we disagree with part of it.”
Was that a joke? What part of the not following science and not even following their own mandates democratic government is reasonable?
Syag, Pirkei Avos suggests davening for the government so that people will not swallow each other alive. Even non-democratic. Rosh Hashona yomi – we were dating documents using years of the current King, Jewish or even more for non-Jewish, so that we stay in the good graces of the government. We all here seem to live in free countries, whether with or without a Queen. Our ability to kvetch about the government is a privilege.
As to democracy: you may think that some decisions are unreasonable, but they are taken via a democratic process to which those in our families who came to this country “swore or affirmed” to – unless your ancestors came as accountants on Mayflower or as slaves (or as prisoners to AU).
Anyone is free to get out of the contract and go to a Cuba or to a North Korea.at the end of the day aussies have lockdown fatiuge cause if lockdown comes when they have 1 case its not seriouse even if they have thousands like not.
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