Aura of Shabbos

Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › Aura of Shabbos

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • June 21, 2015 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #615878
    mik5
    Participant

    Does anyone have this latest sefer by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen shlit”a?

    June 21, 2015 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1089102
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I have access to a copy.

    June 21, 2015 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1089103
    mik5
    Participant

    OK, thanks.

    I am very interested in the part where Rabbi Cohen shlit”a talks about the mitzvah of tosefes shabbos.

    He writes that in a case where the shul davens Mincha late on Friday afternoon, one should verbally accept Shabbos and then daven Mincha.

    PROBLEM: How can one daven Mincha after having accepted Shabbos?

    June 21, 2015 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #1089104
    Aprager
    Participant

    There are numerous answers to this question see Piskei Teshuvos on the MB.

    June 21, 2015 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1089105
    mik5
    Participant

    The Shemiras Shabbos K’Chilcasa (Chapter 46) and Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik both rule that one MUST daven Mincha by himself before shkia, and not with the minyan after shkia, in order to fulfill the BIBLICAL obligation of tosefes shabbos.

    June 21, 2015 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #1089106
    Yosi7
    Member

    mik5- Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach z’l said to just be mikabel the issur Melocho of shabbos and not the Kedusha and there for you can daven mincha. I have heard from rebbeim in the Mir that this is the best thing to do.

    June 25, 2015 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #1089107
    mik5
    Participant

    Yosi7 – The Shemiras Shabbos K’Chilcasa was a talmid of HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l. In Chapter 46 of his sefer, he paskens not like you said. Why was he paskening differently from what his rebbi said?

    The best thing to do, in my personal opinion, is to follow the ruling that one should daven Mincha by himself before shkia, since that is how the Shemiras Shabbos K’Chilcasa holds in his sefer, as well as Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik and others.

    June 25, 2015 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1089108
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach z’l said to just be mikabel the issur Melocho of shabbos and not the Kedusha

    Is there any source (aside from R. Shlomo Zalman zt”l, obviously) that the two are separable?

    (And, please, if your answer is going to be “who are you to question R. Shlomo Zalman? If he said it, it must be so…” then please keep it to yourself.)

    The Wolf

    June 25, 2015 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1089109
    mik5
    Participant

    Wolf – The answer to your question is “Yes.” There are times when a person who must abide by the melacha restrictions of Shabbos is still able to recite the weekday Mincha prayers.

    That will be addressed G-d willing in my next comment.

    June 25, 2015 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1089110
    mik5
    Participant

    Taken from essay by Rabbi Aaron Cohen:

    The Shulchan Aruch (263:12-13) rules that when a community accepts Shabbos, individuals in that community are prohibited from doing melacha. On the other hand, the Shulchan Aruch also makes clear that while one may not daven the weekday Mincha in a minyan which has accepted Shabbos, it is permissible to daven Mincha outside the Shul. This seems contradictory: how can the person daven the weekday Mincha if he has been forced to accept Shabbos? The Chayei Adam (33:4) explains: ?? ???? ???

    ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???, ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????, ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ?

    (??? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???’ ??”? ???? ?”? ?”?, ???? ???? ????? ??? ???, ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?”? ? ?

    [than other areas of Shabbos, allowing one to daven the weekday Mincha], for according to the essential Halacha it would be appropriate to daven the regular Shemoneh Esrai [on Shabbos], but because of the honor of Shabbos, the Chachamim did not impose this obligation [see Berachos 21a, Shulchan Aruch 268:2]; therefore, since the person did not accept Shabbos [himself, but it is only imposed due to the acceptance of the community], they

    adhered to the essential Halacha [and allowed the person to daven the weekday Mincha].

    June 25, 2015 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #1089111
    Yosi7
    Member

    Mik5- Looked up the Shmiras Shabbos Kehilchasa. He doesn’t seem to talk about the case that I said. I also wasn’t talking about a case where Mincha will run into Shkiah rather when one just wants stam to be Mikabel Shabbos early like 30 minutes that you can be mekabel the Issur Melocha and not the Kedusha. I’m not sure why the Shmiras Shabbos doesn’t bring it down but I heard it from Rav Nissan Kaplan from the Mir who learned by Kol Torah (rav Shlomo Zalman) and said it in his name.

    June 25, 2015 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1089112
    mik5
    Participant

    Look in Shemiras Shabbos K’Chilchasa 46:5. Very interesting psak.

    However, according to Eretz Tzvi 60; Mishmeres Shalom 26:2 quoting the Minsker Gadol; Minchas Yitzchak 9:20; Tzitz Eliezer 13:42; Bris Olam, pg. 13, you are right. Several poskim hold that an individual’s kabbalas tosefes Shabbos does not preclude his davening Minchah later.

    Wolf: Teshuvos v’Hanhagos (3:83) allows davening Mincha after accepting Tosefes Isur Melachah, but not after accepting Kedushas Shabbos.

    Having said that: According to the opinion of the Mishnah Berurah and many other poskim, once Shabbos has been ushered in (by any expression of kabbalos Shabbos), the weekday Minchah service may no longer be recited (see Mishnah Berurah 263:43). Ha’Gaon HaRav Chaim Kanievsky, Shlita, forbids Minchah after any acceptance of Shabbos [Ishei Yisrael 36(20)]. [When I saw this, I was concerned, because I have a great deal of respect for Rabbi Kanievsky and his rulings, and find many of them to be extremely interesting.]

    “rather when one just wants stam to be Mikabel Shabbos early like 30 minutes that you can be mekabel the Issur Melocha and not the Kedusha”

    There is no need to stam be mekabel Shabbos 30 minutes early, although it is praiseworthy to do so.

    June 25, 2015 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #1089113
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    mik,

    Thanks for the cite, but that doesn’t explain that the kedusha of Shabbos is seperable from the prohibition of melacha. All it says is that one is not prohibited from saying a weekday Shmoneh Esrei even on Shabbos. It makes no separation between the kedusha of Shabbos and the prohibition of work.

    The Wolf

    June 25, 2015 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #1089114
    mik5
    Participant

    Rav Moshe Sternbach, Shlita (Teshuvos V’Hanhagos, Orach Chayim 3:83) poskens that there are

    two kinds of Tosefes Shabbos-one for Kabolas Issur Melacha which one

    can be mekabel and still daven the weekday Mincha as long as he stops

    doing melacha-and the regular Kabolas Kedushas Shabbos after which one

    can no longer daven the weekday Mincha. Accordingly, if one has not yet

    davened Mincha but can refrain from doing melacha, he should at least

    be mekabel on himself “Tosefes Shabbos L’inyan Issur Melacha.”

    In other words – and I think that this addresses Wolf’s question – There is a difference between being mekabel tosefes shabbos l’inyan issur melacha (after which one can still daven Mincha, according to SOME poskim), versus the full 100% acceptance of kedushas shabbos (which would preclude davening Mincha later).

    June 25, 2015 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #1089115
    Yosi7
    Member

    mik5- I never said there is any need to stam be mekabel shabbos 30 minutes early. That is just my person practice because I feel that it helps one prepares one’s mind for shabbos (and Shayim Mikra).

    I also have a great deal of respect for Rav Chaim Kanievsky and his Psakim but that does not mean that you always have to be Choshesh to everything he says (especially when my Rebbeim have told me otherwise and when) many gedolei h’achronim say its muttar.

    June 26, 2015 1:37 am at 1:37 am #1089116
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    In other words – and I think that this addresses Wolf’s question – There is a difference between being mekabel tosefes shabbos l’inyan issur melacha (after which one can still daven Mincha, according to SOME poskim), versus the full 100% acceptance of kedushas shabbos (which would preclude davening Mincha later).

    Mik, once again, thank you for the cites. However, both RSZA and RMS are *very* modern sources. On what did they base that there was this possibility of “splitting” Shabbos up like that?

    The Wolf

    June 26, 2015 3:55 am at 3:55 am #1089117
    Sam2
    Participant

    Wolf: There are many Achronim (especially more Lomdish ones) who read the Rishonim like that. That the Ikkar of Tosefes Shabbos is just for Issur Melacha, not anything else.

    mik5: It’s a Machlokes HaPoskim. There are Tzdadim both ways. And the Shmiras Shabbos does not always agree with R’ Shlomo Zalman, though the disagreements are very rare.

    June 28, 2015 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1089118
    mik5
    Participant

    yosi7 – You can refrain from melacha (which will help you prepare your mind for Shabbos, etc.) even without officially accepting Shabbos, or officially deciding to be mekabel the issur melacha on yourself.

    This way you can still get to do what you want (i.e., to prepare yourself mentally for the holy Shabbos) without running into a machlokes haposkim if you are still allowed to daven Mincha, or if it is now forbidden for you to daven Mincha. According to the heilege Chofetz Chaim and the gadol hador (i.e., Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, shlit”a), you cannot daven Mincha after accepting Shabbos (in any way). I respect the fact that your rebbeim told you otherwise, and that some gedolim ha’achronim allow davening Mincha after having accepted Shabbos, but some of these gedolim ha’achronim permit this only b’shas hadchak (if there is no other choice), and some of the most authoritative gedolim ha’achronim (the above-mentioned Mishna Berura and Rabbi Kanievsky) forbid it outright.

    June 28, 2015 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #1089119
    mik5
    Participant

    I believe that in this sefer, Rabbi Cohen shlti”a writes that if a person comes to shul late on Shabbos morning and the minyan is about to daven Mussaf, he should first recite the morning prayers and only then daven Mussaf, even though he is causing himself to miss tefilla b’tzibbur. Interesting ruling, based probably on the Kitzur S”A that one cannot daven Mussaf first and then recite the morning prayers. If I remember correctly, the Ben Ish Chai holds the same way. But I hold that one should daven Mussaf first, since one will fulfill the mitzvah of tefilla b’tzibbur (even though usually the more frequent mitzvah should be done first).

    June 28, 2015 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #1089120
    mik5
    Participant

    Interesting: One who comes to shul so late that the shul is preparing to daven Musaf should not begin with Musaf. He should start with Shacharit, despite the fact that this means he will miss reciting Musaf with the community.

    (Rav Moshe Feinstein, Igrot Moshe Orach Chaim 4:68)

    I saw somewhere an opinion that says the opposite. Help, anyone?

    June 28, 2015 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #1089121
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    [Every time I see this thread, it reminds me of a former member. @aurora77, hope everything is going great for you! G-d bless!

    SiDi™]

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.