- This topic has 4 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 8 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
I thought having a huge gathering in Yerushalayim to daven to Hashem for the zchus of learning Torah in Eretz Yisroel is a tremendous kiddush Hashem.
We all have seen time and again throughout history that whenever Jews have been jailed for learning Torah, it has been the beginning of the end. So, I believed the atzeres tefilla davening that our boys should be able to continue learning Torah was a good thing.
However, the signs totally delegitimize the entire purpose. The purpose in signs, as some people say, is ‘so the media/government know what we’re fighting about’. I think the signs are a total chillul Hashem, in no particular order:
1. As if anyone doesn’t know why the chareidim are protesting.
2. Would it be so terrible if some journalist didn’t know why they gathered and assumed the reason was to daven for the safety of Am Yisrael? Imagine the headlines when a couple days after the atzeres tefila the IDF intercepted the missiles ship from Iran, “Chareidim daven to be saved from Iran and we have seen that Hashem accepted their tefilot”. We know that no tefilla is wasted, even if the tefilla goes to something we didn’t daven for, so we know that was why we were saved. However, because of these signs, there was no room for seculars to think that was why we gathered so instead the secularists will praise the might of the IDF instead of the power of tefila.
3. If they truly believed in the power of tefila, they wouldn’t need signs. When you appeal to the government, you bring signs. When you appeal to Hashem, all you need is a siddur (and a lev nishbar). If you think Hashem needs your help in getting your message across then why daven in the first place.
Israel is so vulnerable, we don’t need the world to know that even many of us are against the Israeli government. If you think they need to know, then daven they should know. The signs are a huge hypocrisy and tell the world, as well as your kids, that davening to Hashem isn’t enough unless you explicitly tell the people what you’re davening for.
interjection: I’m not sure what to think about it, but I do think the signs were wrong. The Rabbonim behind the event made it very clear that it was a gathering for prayer, and nothing else. They said straight out that no political statements would be made. They purposely only had a small lectern for the person leading the tefillos so nobody would even think of making a speech. So why did people completely ignore what the Rabbonim said, and bring those signs to the atzeres? TO me, the signs were a chillul Hashem, showing that people who claim to follow Daas Torah in every aspect of their lives ignored the instructions they were given.
I think it is a kiddush hashem when people gather at the request of rabbonim, whatever the reason, or even if no reason.
In the eyes of those who look at people who choose to study Torah over “normal” secular goals, it is a kiddush Ha-Shem. In the eyes for whom the measure of a person’s worth is how much money they earn, or how many people they rule over, or how much power they have – it is a sacrilege. To those Jews who have made the pursuit of wealth and power the central tenet of their version of Judaism, the demonstration is ridiculous. However just as many people will respect people who consider Torah and Mitsvos to be more important than getting rich and killing goyim.
Interjection said that the gathering was a kiddush Hashem. Agreed 100%. Interjection also said the signs were a chillul Hashem. Maybe so, maybe not. But they were 100% against the will of the rabbanim who organized the event who explicitly asked that signs not be brought.
As far as the reasons quoted, I would comment that #3 is important for us all to know at all times. Nothing to do with politics, just Judaism and Torah life. #1 is so true that it makes #2 seem a bit imaginative. Yes, we know that Hashem accepts tefillos and uses them in ways beyond our comprehension. And who knows if that interception of the Iranian weapons wasn’t as a direct result of those tefillos. But I can’t imagine there is anyone who thinks that the chareidim were actually davening for the defeat of Iran. The event was so well publicized, that even without the signs, everyone knew what it was about. The people who aren’t on our side, don’t understand the way the Hashem listens to tefillos that you described.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.