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All Torah sources point to an abhorrence of arrogance: the gemara compares arrogance to avoda zara; hashem says of an arrogant person “There is no room for both of us in this world,” etc.
I am confused, because I recently read an article written by a psychologist in which he explains that arrogance is but the result of a low self-image/low self-esteem, which causes the individual to inflate himself with arrogance. It would seem that A) someone arrogant is actually a “nebech”; B) the correct approach to battling arrogance would be to develop a healthy self-esteem [whereas the rambam advises acting with the extreme end of humility].
And now I must clarify. It sounds like I’m c”v asking which approach is correct: The Torah’s or the psychologist’s.
That is not my intention at all, but rather to understand the Emes, the Torah.I suspect that there are quite a few who might comment here, sharing their wisdom and putting your doubts and questions to rest. Clearly, the “opposing” concepts you listed are not contradictory at all. Instead of my attempting to show you (my arrogance) how to answer your question, I will simply draw your attention to the writings that have enlightened Klal Yisroel for centuries.
I suggest you review the chapters in Mesilas Yeshorim that address the subject. Next (I’m not suggesting any priorities), try the Orchos Tzaddikim. Many other sefrei mussar are precious, to include Chovas Halevavos, Michtav M’Eliyahu, and numerous others. After studying them, revisit the question, and share any of your “contradictions” here.
1.414 … said> which approach is correct: The Torah’s or the psychologist’s.
Rav/Dr Avraham Twersky might be able to answer your questions – he writes about middos and psychology. Try any of his books (he wrote somewhere that he wrote only one book in his life – about low self-esteem, different “books” are simply different ways to express that idea!)
>>>I am confused, because I recently read an article written by a psychologist
Without directly addressing the question, I sure hope you don’t get confused every time you see some article from some psychologist claiming something you didn’t think was the case before. To answer the question in a peripheral way, think of all the people who you believe hurt you in your life. Do you view ALL of them as nebach because plenty of psychologists will tell you that “hurting people hurt other people”?
smerel writes: “think of all the people who you believe hurt you in your life. Do you view ALL of them as nebach because plenty of psychologists will tell you that “hurting people hurt other people”?”
I think that “hurt people hurt” is a very positive way of changing perspective and being able to view those who hurt us with pity and when called for true care and concern. Rebetzin Machlis was known to quote that line over and over again to herself and others.
Simply put, arrogance may stem from low self esteem however one who allows his arrogant ways to go untamed without self work is a toeva in Hashem’s eyes. The Rambam’s advice of going to the humble extreme, if done right, can open up worlds for those with low self esteem by giving them the space to appreciate who they are irrelevant how the world sees them.
“1.414 … said> which approach is correct: The Torah’s or the psychologist’s.”
Wow, that’s some CNN-level quoting out of context right there. Here’s what he actually said:“And now I must clarify. It sounds like I’m c”v asking which approach is correct: The Torah’s or the psychologist’s.
That is not my intention at all, but rather to understand the Emes, the Torah.”Sqrt(2): I would tell you that the psychologist is just outdated and wrong. People used to think that schoolyard bullies were these sympathetic monsters who were really suffering more than their victims. Then people paid more attention and realized that more than half the time the bullies have perfectly easy, privileged lives while their victims do not. Obviously, there are exceptions to everything, but to say that that arrogance always comes from low self esteem just isn’t true. More often than not, the opposite is.
I think the torah is referring to true arrogance, an overload of self-esteem, meaning he thinks he can do everything and he is in power- he thinks he is god. This Hashem says the world cannot contain both of us. Whereas the psychologists to those who act arrogant out of low self-esteem. Like a bully who hurts others to put him down and thereby raise himself. We have to separate these two concepts
> CNN-level quoting
I just brought that issue for a reference, I didnt attack someone based on a misquote. Next, you’ll say that I don’t value him enough because 1.414 is less than sqrt(2)Here is R Twersky on low self-esteem in 3 different formats:
https://www.torahweb.org/torah/special/2008/dtwe_esteem.html
“I just brought that issue for a reference, I didnt attack someone based on a misquote”
I didn’t actually think you were purposely doing it to attack him.“Next, you’ll say that I don’t value him enough because 1.414 is less than sqrt(2)”
I wish I had thought of that. I also wish I had thought of calling him “Radical Two,” because it sounds way cooler than sqrt(2).at least we seem to agree that sqrt(2) ain’t rational. And he has a non-identical twin -1.414. I also wonder whether sqrt(-2)s are their imaginary quadruplets.
“But that sort of limits all “real” arrogant individuals to the likes of Paroh and Nevuchadnetzar. Do “regular” people stoop to such levels?”
It’s not only the kings of old who suffered from arrogance- feeling like god doesn’t have to be literal. It also refers to people who feel that they are in absolute control of everything that is happening. A successful man may feel this, e.g. a businessman after closing a great deal. They feel that they are in power and this is the sense of godliness that the Torah refers to
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