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The idea that the Gedolim are the leaders of the generation and are the only ones qualified with Daas Torah to shape the future of the Charedi world is a basic doctrine of Charedi society.
That being the case, why are the gedolim not more vocal in guiding our nation on pressing issues of grave concern?
Aren’t leaders suppose to provide clarity in times of need?
Isn’t it absurd that many have to turn to publications like Mishpacha to gain insight. Charedi journalists can only second guess the appropriate charedi stance. Our only connection to Gedolim are the pictures printed in the Hamodia and on various tzedaka campaigns.
Please enlighten me on the subject
Well if you want daas Torah don’t read any of the Jewish magazines because they all have an agenda. You want guidance speak to your Rav attend inspiring shiurim and try to visit gedolim when you can. Instead of going to cancun for vacation maybe go to Eretz Yisroel instead and visit Rav Steinman Kannievsky and others and ask tthem any questions you have in hashkafah.
We certainly are not lacking leadership. We currently have great gedolim providing phenomenal leadership to our generation. Just as we had great leadership in all previous generations.
What our generation, with all our weaknesses and sins, is lacking is “followership” and proper “laymanship” who follow our leaders to the tee. Should we improve ourselves in that aspect we will have raised our level to much greater heights.
yes. the difference between this dor and the one before it are night and day. additionally the problem is jews have become more segmented so even if there was someone vocal no one would listen to him …
Not at all. There’s no shortage of Gedolim b”H. They’re available to anyone who’s interested in their leadership.
Gedolim usually deal with individuals and offer guidance as needed, they are occupied with urgent matters that are brought to their attention most of the day. Gedolim also get involved with the Rabbim especially during crucial times and when there’s something colossal to be addressed. They put in a tremendous amount of energy for the Klal and very often, their efforts go unappreciated.
I’m wondering what prompted this query.
The Gedolim actually do offer guidance and speak out on issues.
Unfortuantley there are many that are unwilling to listen to them.
Ben Levi
Sad but true.
The Chashmonean were punsihed because they took the Kahuna (Relgious) mantle and the political mantle (The Kingship)
One of the greatest Gedolim of the previous generation Rav Chaim Ozer told the jews from Poland to come to Vilna because it was safe there.
zahavasdad: At what point prior to the holocaust was Vilna not in Poland? It didn’t switch until World War II, at which time being behind Soviet lines was much better for Jews than being behind German lines (which was the situation prior to the German invasion of the Soviet Union).
Avreich, you’re reading Mishpacha “to gain insight?!?”
You need to read the Ami magazine / gilgulim thread.
Or maybe you just want to move your comment to my favorite- the Jokes thread.
Do you have a Rav? Did you attend a Yeshiva? The opinions of the Gedolim are not as far away as you think. And Mishpacha magazine…
– I think I won’t finish that sentence or the Mods will delete me.
Rav Chaim Ozer told the jews of Poland to go to Vilna after the invasion of Poland, but before the invasion of Lithuania.
Lithuania was not part of Poland or the Soviet Union before WW II. It was independent between the wars (As was Latvia and Estonia)
Yup ZD,
You are 100% correct.
And at the point that Rav Chaim Ozer zt”l called all yeshiva bochrim to Vilna it was indeed safer there and thousands were ultimately saved because of their initial trip to Vilna which gave them the time to find escape routes.
This includes the entire Mirrer Yeshiva as well as parts of Kletsk and Yeshivas Chachmei Lublin.
About 55,000 jews were killed in the Vilna Ghetto
There were about 220,000 Jews in Lithuania in 1940, about 200,000 of them were killed
“Isn’t it absurd that many have to turn to publications like Mishpacha to gain insight.”
Yes it is. Their local shul Rav is almost always more approachable, knowledgeable and likely comes out more than once a week. Asei licha Rav.
“Charedi journalists can only second guess the appropriate charedi stance.”
I’m not a jornalist, I dont know what they do or dont know or how they formulate the positions they take in their articles, if they in fact articulate positions and not merely report news. Will leave it to those more knowledgeable than me to answer this one.
“Our only connection to Gedolim are the pictures printed in the Hamodia and on various tzedaka campaigns.”
Why do you need a connection to a “gadol” or “gedolim”, get close to a local Rav and discuss all your nagging questions with him. Of course, if you live in the same locale as a “gadol” then try to discuss your questions directly with him.
More generally, why do you feel gedolim must editorialize about every “issue” the general public deems “important”? They are not news editors.
Klal yisroel has always had very capable leaders. We still do. How many willing followers do we have? Once upon a time when a Rav said something it was respected. Now his words are parsed by every two bit “scholar” who isnt afraid to state his or her opinion on the subject, anonymously of course, on forums such as this.
Point?
Do you intend to list all the satistics of European Jewry killed?
The question was whether att the time Rav Chaim Ozer zt”l called all yeshiva bochrim to Vilna he was corecct.
Facts are he was and his called led directly to thousands of lives saved as well as the re-birth of Yeshivos in Chutz La’aretz.
Why does it bother you if Rav Chaim Ozer was wrong on this one issue.
It doesnt make him any less of a Gadol if he did not total understand what Hitler intended to do, Many people made that same mistake.
Would you respect him any less if he was wrong this one time. And he wasnt the only one. Many others gave similar bad advice.
Jews do not belive people are infallible, Only Catholics belive that.
So Zd
You bring up a point.
You are proven wrong.
Rav Chaim ozer gave the advice that directly led to thousands of lives being saved.
Now you try and change the topic.
From Wikipedia Entry on Ponary (The Forest outside of Vilna)
The Ponary massacre or Paneriai massacre (Polish: zbrodnia w Ponarach) was the mass-murder of 100,000 people, mostly Jews and Polish intelligentsia, by German SD, SS and Lithuanian Nazi collaborators Sonderkommando collaborators (Special SD and German Security Police Squad Ypatingasis b?rys units) during World War II and the Holocaust in Reichskommissariat Ostland. The executions took place between July 1941 and August 1944 near the railway station of Paneriai (Polish: Ponary) – a suburb of Vilnius, Lithuania. Some 70,000 Jews were murdered in Ponary,[7] along with estimated 20,000 Poles[ and 8,000 Russians, many from nearby Vilnius.
ZD,
Nothing you have written in anyway indicates that R Chaim Ozer made a mistake. The question really is why you keep prattling on when you are wrong. Considering your self infallible is not a Jewish trait, rather it is a catholic trait.
Small facts that you are conveniently omitting;
The people who remained in the towns the Yeshivas ran from were massacred before those in Vilna. So those who fled to Vilna lived and learned longer.
Whole yeshivas were in fact saved from the holocaust.
But facts were never a strong point in any of your arguments, they just tend to get in the way.
If you like, we can post that on Wikipedia for you.
There is the problem of people misinterpreting what Gedolim say. Many things are taken out of context, rearranged, or missing key points. I recently heard a story (I don’t know if it’s true, but it shows the point) of a Rabbi being asked which is more Tznius; short skirt, or long flowing pants. He replied that he couldn’t answer, because people will only hear that he allows pants. Also, many things have to be seen on an individual basis. Blanket statements can hurt complicated individual cases. No matter what, considering how diversified our Jewish nation is, someone always seems to take offense at anything said. Maybe if we stop pointing fingers, and were more receptive to building on our own lives, Gedolim could help us more.
Yes, we are lacking in leadership.
We aren’t lacking in gedolim.
We aren’t lacking in Yeshivos, mesivtos, kollelim.
We aren’t lacking in self righteous middlemen, askonim, and the like.
But we are lacking in hundreds, in tens of thousands of Yeshiva and Seminary educated men and women standing up and relying upon the rock solid foundations of chinuch that their parents and past generations of our manhigim were moser nefesh to build and provide.
Are we lacking in emunas chachomim? Maybe. But if we don’t behave as educated, choice making, God fearing Jews, who don’t have a need to ask a “leader” which shoe to tie first in the morning, we are for sure lacking in emunas hashem. And kibud av voem, and hakoras hatov.
If you can sit in Yeshiva for 5 years and not have the confidence to look up a teyrutz before feeling the need to read a “leader’s” pashkevil about a halachic issue, there’s something wrong with your worldview.
If you can sit in kollel for 10 years and not have the concentration on living a holy life that will let you walk down a street upon which there are non frum people walking in their normal dress without feeling a need emulate what you perceive to be the will of a “leader” to castigate them for their impiety, you may have missed the point of view of Hillel Hazokein.
We are lacking in leadership, indeed. We have families to lead. We have neighborhoods to lead. we each have our flocks. We’ve been given good guidance, we have incredibly learned people to ask for help when we can’t figure things out for ourselves.
But we have only one shepherd.
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