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The Gemara in Bava Kama on 38a-38b shows that R’ Shmuel Bar Yehudah was quite sad when his daughter died.
On the other hand, the way Ulah comforted him was by saying “?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???” and Rashi says ??? ?? ??? ?? ?????. ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?????
hi,
Maharal explains that this means happy is a man whose sons behave like a man and woe to a man whose sons behave like a woman, meaning naturally man should give and not take, so when man takes like a woman its bad for his father that ho got such a son.
Gut Shabbes
im not married and i dont have any kids, but in every story about a childless couple the ending is so predictable. They went to a rabbi, got a blessing and exactly one year later they had a ….. BOY!!!!
so the answer is yes. boys are more desirable than girls.
They went to a rabbi, got a blessing and exactly one year later they had a ….. BOY!!!!
so the answer is yes. boys are more desirable than girls.
Let me get this straight… because a couple got a bracha from a rav and had a boy a year later, that proves that boys are more desirable than girls? That’s proof?
The Wolf
It proves that the stories would not have the same effect if they had a girl. Also I’m constantly getting Brochos from random Israelis to have a Ben zachar.
Are sons more desirable than daughters?
Depends who you ask. For some people sons are more desirable. For some, daughters are. For the rest of the population, the gender doesn’t matter. Only that the child should be healthy, happy and erlich.
karagnostic: Jump off a cliff. The gemara didn’t take its values from the people–that would negate the entire point of having a gemara.
Come on PBA, that’s a little unfair. There are certainly things in the Gemara that are said because they went with assumptions based on their society. The Gemara is still the embodiment of Torah Sheba’al Peh. But everyone agrees that some things int he Gemara were not recordings of Torah Sheba’al Peh but rather recordings of Stam Chachmah also (the obvious example is Refuos). I’m not going to comment on any particular case, but I strongly protest your assertion that there is no point to the Gemara if the Gemara took some sociological assumptions from their society. It would still be our Mesorah and our Torah Sheba’al Peh.
Why is it when a woman gives birth to a boy, she is tamei for 33 days but for a girl she is tamei for 66 days?
I agree with karagnostic and cannot believe this is even a question. Today one is not mor desireable that the other. It is what an individual prefers.
In the olden days, Males=money. They grow up, work the fields, caary your family name etc.
Girls =expenses. They cannot work, so they are an extra mouth to feed, they have dowries which equates to the male getting more money and they do not carry your family name. This is common sense, and those who think you need miforshim on this; i guess lack this common sense. I wonder when pure human intellect was thrown out the window?
By the way, PBA, I’m pretty sure the Gemara itself (or Rashi) explains P’shat as anon1m0us just said. So, I think this is a case where the Gemara itself tells us it is a sociological statement.
Are lollipops more desirable than whole wheat bread? Maybe, but you need both.
Torah
You need lollipops? Really? (Maybe you should do something about that lolli addiction).
FWIW, when we were expecting our first, we wanted a boy, but only because having one would give us the opportunity to perform the mitzvah of pidyon haben. After we had our oldest (who was a boy), we then wanted a girl. When our second turned out to be a boy, we wanted our third one to be a girl (which she was).
We only had three children. However, if we expected another child, I would not have a preference as to the gender of the child.
The Wolf
After teaching a semester in a boys yeshiva, I want all daughters.
the wolf- evidentially, sons are a bigger simchah than girls…..
I’d say that fathers prefer sons, and mothers prefer daughters. Perfectly logical that the gemora being written by men would prefer sons… as would a Rabbi giving a bracha for children.
the wolf- evidentially, sons are a bigger simchah than girls…..
Well, I don’t view it that way… and I know lots of other people who feel the same way that I do.
The Wolf
I’d say that fathers prefer sons,
Well, again, this father does not.
I wanted a son first for one particular reason — absent that reason, I wouldn’t have cared. I also wanted at least one of each — beyond that, again, I would have been equally happy with sons or daughters.
The Wolf
Secular frummy:
You mean tahor , not tamei. Read the psukim. Boy: 7 days t’me’ah, then 33 t’horah. Girl: two weeks t’me’ah , then 66 t’horah.
A man has more mitzvot to perform than a woman, and can be a talmid chacham, hence why many prefer a son to a daughter.
It’s interesting to note that in the Sephardic zeved habat prayer, we pray that the baby girl give birth to male children, davka.
Gamanit:
The Gemarah was written by men who were steeped in Torah and Avodah. Their intelligence, their wisdom, their sayings were solely from HaShem, the one who, in fact, created woman too. They understood the makeup of a woman far better than any doctor, psychiatrist, counselor, mentor or coach do. The Gemarah is replete with these sayings, characteristics they possess. The Gemarah is also replete with advancements, advantages afforded women, due to their general personality, temperament, character make-up. They were afforded and regarded more, far grater then than any of today’s “movements”. No the Gemarah was not written by male bigots.
Little froggie
Thank you, I had my blow torch out…
Froggie (Zees?):
There is a massive middle ground between being a male bigot and being the direct word of Hashem. Sociological statements (especially an economic one) can come from that middle ground, without any bigotry involved.
How would you them classify a claim such as nashim da’atan kalot?
rd: It’s a B’feirush Gemara in Peshachim that Da’atan Kalos is in no way an insult.
WolfishMusings- I didn’t say this is true to all men, I was referring to men in general.
Little Frog- Did I ever say that the gemora was written by male bigots? I don’t believe I did. Would a woman that wants a daughter be a female bigot, or only a man who wants a son?
Sam2: I’m not sure what your mekor is, but its pshat from the Gemara in Shabbos 32-33 that it is not an insult. Rashbi fears that his wife will give in to torture and reveal his hiding place cuz her Daas is kal. This dies not refer to intelligence, but rather emotional frailty.
Obviously it is more desirable to have boys if you are going to be ridiculed. looked down on and/or pitied if your child has the misfortune of being a miss.
What in the world did Hashem have in mind in Bereishis 1:27: “And Hashem created man in His own image, in the image of Hashem created him; male and female He created them” ?
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