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What do u think?
No. It is a bubbe maaisa. There are a prortion of OOTers that have an inferiority complex when it comes to in-town. While it is true that living in a major frum Jewish majority area has many many maailos (especially in ruchniyos), this subset of folks instead of acknowledging this reality try their best to knock in-town/NY down a few pegs to their level, and do so by coming up with all these quacky things like NYers are judgemental and a bunch of other bubbe maaisas.
What’s the difference between less judgement and a mind set? Which members of the community are you talked ng about? Are these MO out of of town communities? Yeshivish? Modern? Judgemental about what?
In some out-of-town places there is one or two “frum school. So you get a much bigger mix of people. Meaning people who are far more laks in their observance. So if by less judgemental you mean will you find people who will accept your Scotia be they are doing it to. The answer is yes. But there are mixes in NY and Lakewood too. Maybe just not as open or as widespread be there are more school options so communities are more divided. In general I would say the more one works on themselves the less they look down on others and more accepting and loving of others they are.
Jj20,
It’s absolutely true, if you live in one town where all types daven and learn in one place, by default you will have to be much more open and acceptive.
There is a famous clip of Rav Shtienman regarding Yeshivas accepting all kinds, he describes how his home town School of Brisk looked like, that basically you had in the same class the Rav’s kids and kids of the local Zionists, and no one had an issue. This is how towns are made up.Joseph,
I think you should move OOT for a month or two.
It might benefit you in lots of aspects 🙂 on the other hand, who will start all the controversies here,bif you will become less judgemental.
Does anyone else agree?City people are abrasive, not judgmental.
Freddy,
The school was the local religious Talmud Torah, and everyone had a right to give his kid a religious education. They didn’t differentiate, they didn’t reject any Jewish kid that the parents were willing to send. That was the beauty, unlike today that extremism has taken over and everyone thinks I am holier than thou.Isn’t it judgemental to say New Yorkers are judgemental?
it can’t be. a judgement has to be an opinion of sorts. facts don’t qualify.
Yes!
I think the reason is because more bts live oot therefore they are less judgmental because they have experienced worse whereas ffbs haven’t
@freddyfish
Talk about judgmental………………………Where is the halacha that religious Jews cannot be Zionists?
OOT, in small communities we leave politics out of our kids’ education.
“it can’t be. a judgement has to be an opinion of sorts. facts don’t qualify.”
Exactly. Thus, if someone is factually mechallel Shabbos or is mechallel tznius or whatever else, saying so isn’t being judgemental.
To me judgemental is not about acknowledging facts. It’s about judging people for doing it. So for example someone isn’t tznius that’s a fact. But you can chose to think they are trying hard and are on their way up or think they are bad.
However when people complain about others being judgemental I don’t think this is the real issue MOST OF THE TIME. I think the issue is that people don’t want to keep halachah and when they see people who are they feel judged and instead want to be justified in their behavior by being around others who do what they do.
If I walk I to a shul and I’m the only guy with a blue shirt I may feel weird and judged. But the problem isn’t the people there it’s me. Now if I don’t want to be part of such a place then I could go somewhere else.
New York is very diverse and New Yorkers are therefore used to all kinds of people.
They are judgemental about different things
Pba,
Like what?
Like a lot of people here, I’ve spent some time OOT and in NY (or wherever “in town” is).
There are all kinds of OOT communities, and all kinds of communities in town.
I’ve met some seriously not nice people all over- out of town, in town, and all around variations of the above, though most people I’ve met in all of the above are good kind people.
I avoid making my own judgment about which people are judgmental, because I can’t ever really know what’s going on inside their heads or what judgments they’re making at any given moment.
I think the only judgment we need to worry about this week (and if we’re going to be honest with ourselves, all the other weeks of the year too) is not the judgment of people, wherever they happen to live.I think the difference is that out of town, people know the names of the people they are judging.
Golfer,
How do you know that the person that you met from oot is not really a nyer that moved there 😜
@Coffee Addict
My parents and elder siblings moved from NYC to New Haven in 1952. The local Jewish community considered them NYers until their deaths. Only by their grandchildren’s generation was the family considered part of the local Jewish community. With a community dating back 175 years it’s not unusual to have 7th generation locals.I was born in New Haven to parents born and educated in NY…For almost 65 years, every time I open my mouth I am accused of being a NYer….
coffee addict – you beat me to it! I was gonna say that I had a meeting with a really nice co-worker from New York. At the end of the meeting I found out she was born and raised in Chicago!
Anyplace outside of E”Y is OOT.
I have a hypothesis why it is
I think people that survived the war spoiled their children because they didn’t have any food when they were younger which made the kids feel entitled
It’s my personal opinion, you don’t have to agree to it
I think the mindset comes from being made to feel that things are coming to them
I think it’s the opposite. People think they don’t deserve to be treated fairly, so they assume everyone else is being rude to them, and then they reciprocate.
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