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A grad student earning doctoral degrees usually is required to teach courses or run labs at the university, so they are working. Most Kollel people do not give shiurim or teach at yeshivas younger students
DY: It was in response to your claim that “but I don’t think long term learners are a huge percentage of the frum population.”
I know; I was kidding.
I wasn’t talking about E.Y., where there’s an entirely different dynamic because of the draft.
OP: Yes, Kollel folks are society’s cream of the crop.
Avram – forgive me, but it was pretty obvious that you were trying to engineer someone into setting you up for your coup de grace, and I was pretty disappointed in your hand once you played it. You are way off topic if you believe that we are talking about the generic US welfare program receipient in this conversation. They typically are driving old pickup trucks not lexuses. This conversation is about unzerer welfare receipients, who by and large live upper middle class lifestyles made possible by having discovered the absolute best possible way to maximize benefits and have succeeded tremendously, with a great deal of “credit” due to entire organizations dedicated to this goal.
When you see a kollel guy/wife pull out an EBT card and then load the groceries into a lexus, you have a lot more information than if it were a random person you observed doing the same thing. I don’t think I used the word lazy, but you know that the kollel guy made an active choice to take benefits rather than contribute economically to society, and seems to be rewarded for doing so to a greater extent than someone who does his best to earn his own way. If you can’t see how that can drive an average person crazy, then you are not nearly as level headed as your years of posting here indicate.
Avram – if government benefits are to be thought of as an insurance safety net rather than tzedakah, then there is tremendous unaddressed moral hazard in the design. The equivalent example is someone who burns down his own house to get insurance money. Charity is a safety net, but it is not insurance.
Entitlement benefits are charity that you dont have to beg for.
I don’t think this was talking about unzerer.
Avram, was this what you were referring to?
Squeak, did you mean to reply to this thread?
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/government-programs-are-not-tzedakah
On a different thread I pointed out that there were 0ver 200 posts in one week. This thread joined that rank.
squeak,
it was pretty obvious that you were trying to engineer someone into setting you up for your coup de grace,
No, I was interested specifically in zahavadad’s answer, but since I won’t get one, I used yours as a proxy.
and I was pretty disappointed in your hand once you played it.
Well it’s a good thing I don’t exist to satisfy you.
You are way off topic if you believe that we are talking about the generic US welfare program receipient in this conversation. They typically are driving old pickup trucks not lexuses.
You obviously don’t interact with typical recipients. Poor purchasing decisions are extremely common among all Americans, impoverished included. And I don’t really believe the Lexus shpiel anyway; zahavasdad made that one up and I was just asking him a question on it.
This conversation is about unzerer welfare receipients, who by and large live upper middle class lifestyles made possible by having discovered the absolute best possible way to maximize benefits and have succeeded tremendously, with a great deal of “credit” due to entire organizations dedicated to this goal.
You may want the conversation to be about your fictitious Welfare Queens, but it is not. Reagan’s Welfare Queen bogeymen were engaged in illegal activities, e.g., being eight people (identity fraud) as he said, not legal recipients, which I am addressing alone. I do not think it is possible to truly live an upper middle class lifestyle and be on assistance simultaneously and legally. Sorry, but your unzerer is an enforcement problem, not a problem with the assistance.
I don’t think I used the word lazy
No, but it was strongly implied.
If you can’t see how that can drive an average person crazy, then you are not nearly as level headed as your years of posting here indicate.
There’s a difference between understanding that an average person would be driven crazy by it, and why that is so, and even feeling that way myself at times (which I do), and accepting it as a correct and valid response.
Disclaimer: wrote this response very quickly with little proofing.
squeak,
The equivalent example is someone who burns down his own house to get insurance money. Charity is a safety net, but it is not insurance.
Fine, poor choice of analogy on my part. Have a good Shabbos.
DaasYochid,
I don’t think this was talking about unzerer.
Correct. I am referring to legally entitled recipients of government aid.
Avram, was this what you were referring to?
Yes, that thread has factored heavily into my responses to this thread and the one in which I was OP.
With kollel being the thread title and the focus of everyone else’s comments, you can see how it was an honest mistake not to realize that one guy was not deliberately arguing about some larger group.
I don’t know… I mean, coming from someone with precognitive abilities…
🙂
Ouch
Maybe it’s time the mods come clean?
squeaky clean
Bump.
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