Are Borsalino hats more stylish than other fedoras?

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  • #614765
    Joseph
    Participant

    Several heimishe hat stores told me there’s no style advantages for a yeshiva guy to get a Borsalino rather than another brand fedora. They all look pretty much the same. The only advantage is they are of a higher quality and thus last longer. But longer-lasting quality simply boils down to a dollars-and-cents decision. If you can pay a third of the price for another brand that lasts half as long as a Borsalino, you are clearly better off purchasing the off-brand rather than wasting money on a Borsalino.

    Are the hat stores correct in assessing that Borsalino fedoras have the same look as other brands? If a guy walked in to a shul wearing a black fedora, could you state with pinpoint accuracy whether or not it is a Borsalino? Are there no other brands that manufacture hats that look just like the Borsalino’s look?

    If, indeed, one can procure off brand hats that look just as well as an entry-level Borsalino, is the only reason some folks pay more for a Borsalino is solely due to its higher quality? Or is a large part of the reason due to the perceived reaction they fear others will have of them should people r’l notice the label inside the hat during the times it is not being worn?

    Gentlemen of the jury, the verdict is now in your hands!

    #1056893
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    1. Yes, Borsalinos look different.

    2. You are making up your numbers: 3 times as much and last twice as long. Maybe they last 3 times as long and cost twice as much?

    #1056894
    Joseph
    Participant

    2. I gave that as an illustration not as a science. My point being that depending on the cost savings coupled with the comparable longevity, it may make much greater financial sense to purchase lower-cost brand (and replace it more frequently).

    1. More than one heimishe hat store owners (that sell Borsalinos as well as competitive brands) told me that the off brands don’t have any notably different style than the Borsalinos. And that the primary differences is the comparable quality.

    #1056895

    I like brandolinos better. I never did well with borsalinos, they were to soft and got misshapen too easily for me. It could be i mistreated them, but i did better with brandolino (ferster). I also like the way they look, but that’s a matter of opinion. My opinion must be unpopular, because many stores carry borsalinos and ad far as i know only ferster carries brandolino.

    #1056896
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I’ve never tried Brandolino, but Borsalinos look better than any brand I’ve seen, on anyone I’ve seen try both.

    #1056897
    NeutiquamErro
    Participant

    YYBKC:

    If your borsalino became misshapen quickly, then you were either cheated or mistreated it. Borsalinos keep their shape better than virtually any other popular make, in my experience (granted, there may be exceptions that prove the rule).

    As regards looks, that is truly, as you say, a matter of personal taste, but I prefer borsalinos, both when new, and due to the fact that they keep their shape.

    As regards brandolino, they have improved as of the past few years but they are still very stiff (which most hat aficionados, which I do not claim to be, would count as a major flaw) and lose their integrity over time. So whilst I can understand preferring other hats to borsalino, or making the perfectly understandable argument that they are far too expensive, saying that Brandolino is preferable due to it’s superior quality is, in my opinion, quite far off the mark.

    #1056898

    I am speaking due to my experience with a Trionfo, and a Brandolino with the red inside. My opinion is generally unpopular, most people i know like Borsalino better. The price difference is insignificant.

    #1056899
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1056900
    Toi
    Participant

    any real ben torah can tell an off brand a mile away.

    #1056901

    If you NEED a Borsalino you’re not a real Ben Torah.

    #1056902
    yotti_kratt
    Member

    Maybe you need a borsalino for your gadlus haadam because you’re a mench. Also the pinches in a borsalino are made by hand I.e. Off center

    #1056904
    NeutiquamErro
    Participant

    Irony detector broken

    #1056905
    Joseph
    Participant

    I’ve never tried Brandolino, but Borsalinos look better than any brand I’ve seen, on anyone I’ve seen try both.

    DY: That is all merely your personal preference. You can’t say one company’s style objectively “looks better” than another company’s style.

    Additionally, every heimishe hat merchant that I’ve asked an opinion from said there are no stylistic benefits with Borsalino.

    NeutiquamErro: What accounts for your preferring the look or style of a brand-new Borsalino over a brand-new competitive brand?

    #1056906
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    My opinion on style is worth no less than a hat seller’s. It might be worth more, because I have no financial interest.

    #1056907
    TheGoq
    Participant

    Why did straw hats on Yeshiva Bochrim go the way of the dinosaurs? you rarely see them anymore but back in the day all the bochrim wore them and some would were suits that were not black also, and also clean shaven was the norm.

    #1056908

    I have heard that shtreimalach don’t come out more expensive than hats; because over 40 years, they both cost the same $2500. (1×2500=/<15×180). Any chassidim on the CR that can verify or disclaim this? I don’t know the going rate for either, or how long hats and shtreimlach last the average consumer.

    #1056909
    TAYRON
    Member

    no big deal wear any hat

    #1056910
    Joseph
    Participant

    DY: That’s the point. It is just your opinion. It’s like you proffering that Coke tastes better than Pepsi or that apples taste better than oranges.

    #1056911
    yehudayona
    Participant

    YYBC, since shtraimlach are worn only on Shabbos, Yuntif (Chassidish spelling), and at simchas, (a) they last longer, and (b) they supplement, rather than replace, black hats. I have no idea how Chassidish black hats compare in price to Borsalinos.

    #1056912
    Joseph
    Participant

    You can compare the longevity of a shtreimal to a Litvish guy’s Shabbos hat.

    #1056913

    I’m talking about shabbos hats. This is an old shaalah, do you get a new hat when you need a new weekday hat or a new shabbos hat?

    #1056914
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    When I had my bar mitzvah, most people did not get Borsalinos. They cost way more than the other hats out there. Stetsons were popular, as were Roches. If you got a Borsalino, you were a big deal!

    I remember that when I was about 17, one store had a huge sale on Borsalinos. My father bought one for himself. It was the first time he had a Borsalino. Until then, he had a Stetson Key Club.

    #1056915
    NeutiquamErro
    Participant

    Lior:

    Cos’ they keep their shape over along time, are easy to reshape if necessary, and, in my limited experience, often look noticeably better than certain inferior brands, and in this I include Brandolino. Still, al taam vehareiyach…

    #1056916
    Joseph
    Participant

    NeutiquamErro: Please define how they “look noticeably better”. Richer black? More classical bowtie? Greater similarity to the hats our zeidas wore in the shtetl?

    #1056917
    oomis
    Participant

    When did style become more I important than substance? If a yeshiva bochur is concerned with the style and name brand, rather than the reason he is wearing a hat, he falls short of my image of what a Ben Torah is supposed to be.

    #1056918
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    how they “look noticeably better”

    Mostly shape. A well shaped hat vs. a cheap one makes the entire face look better.

    When did style become more I important than substance?

    They want both. Didn’t you buy a “new” (albeit relatively affordable) shaitel for your son’s chasunah? I’m sure there were other wardrobe/makeup/jewelry expenses as well, for you and others in your family as well. Wasn’t the “substance” the simcha, not appearance? The answer is that we care about both. Caring about one’s appearance doesn’t mean the person is shallow and lacking substance (although to an extreme, it does, a Borsalino is not extreme).

    #1056919
    Joseph
    Participant

    Mostly shape. A well shaped hat vs. a cheap one makes the entire face look better.

    Are Borsalino’s competitor’s hats not well shaped?

    #1056920
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Not as well. Of course, you’re entitled to disagree, walk around with a $25 shmatta on your head, and think it’s just as nice. 🙂

    #1056921

    Every hat starts off shaped the same, or basically the same. The question is how well that holds.

    #1056922
    Joseph
    Participant

    In your opinion, Borsalino is the only hat company in the world that makes well shaped fedora hats?

    #1056923
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    No, but it’s the best I’ve seen.

    #1056924
    Joseph
    Participant

    And in your opinion, no one else makes an equally well shaped hat as Borsalino? YYBC says all fedora’s start off shaped the same; are you disagreeing with him or merely opining that Borsalino’s shape holds out longer than others? If the latter, we are back to the quality/lower-cost trade-off discussed in the beginning of this conversation (that simply amounts to an economic equation.)

    #1056925
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The former.

    #1056926
    Binyamin2711
    Participant

    Yes Boraslinos are better in every way. A, The look is by far much better on a person,( why would people be diffrent hats for Shabbos or have a diffrent hat at all for Shabbos)) ??? ???(. It’s a better hat. 2nd they are not stiff like other cheap hats. 3rd, they’re much lighter then those cheap hats which weight a ton and could bother you during davening. 4rth- Make sure you have a travel box to keep it in good use. 5 Make sure you buy it form a place that doesn’t just stack them one top of another, but from a real place where it’s in box already. 6 Buy it during Bein Hazmanim. You get better rates, or if you buy with a friend, you can get batter rate, just look around. Unfortunately these day there mead expensive and keep going up. But remember you get what you pay for

    #1056928

    The shape is the same, Borsalino just had a nicer finish, since it is higher quality. There ate a couple of exceptions to the shape rule, but you’ll be hard pressed to see the difference between a Roche or a Borsalino from 5 feet away.

    #1056929
    old man
    Participant

    Yayin, I assume you meant to say that since it has a nicer finish, it is considered of better quality.

    #1056930
    Joseph
    Participant

    What do you mean by “nicer finish”?

    Regarding the shape, considering that Borsalino is the standard, it would make sense that the other hat manufacturers would emulate Borsalino’s form. And it should be pretty straightforward to copy the shape without much difficulty for a new hat. And like others mentioned here, I too have not noticed a difference in the shape of a new Borsalino versus the shape of a new Brandalino, Roche, Stetson or other brands. So I don’t understand DaasYochid’s insistence otherwise.

    #1056931
    flatbusher
    Participant

    I would think people would like to replace a hat every couple of years so why not save the money for that occasion rather than spend a lot on one that lasts longer than your tastes? From my personal experience, I buy a hat based on how good it looks on me, not the brand. Maybe that’s simplistic but getting hung up on brand names just limits your choices. I’ve seen enough people wearing hats that to me don’t look good on them. I guess they feel differently, but it was seem a shame to spend a lot of money on a hat that doesn’t enhance your appearance.

    #1056932
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I’ve been wearing the same style hat for the past decade or longer.

    #1056933

    I’m wearing the same style hat since my bar mitzvah. I’ve had to replace the hat a few times, though.

    #1056934
    Joseph
    Participant

    A black fedora is a black fedora. What other styles would there be even if you wanted to change? It’s like a white shirt. The differences between one and another are too subtle to make a significant difference.

    #1056935
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Do the heimish store owners also tell you that there’s no difference between a $6 shirt and a $40 shirt?

    #1056936
    Joseph
    Participant

    I’m speaking style, not quality. The more expensive shirts, like the more expensive hats, are mostly so due to a higher quality rather than style. There are subtle stylistic differences, but they are subtle.

    #1056937
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I’m talking style. In the case of shirts, cut, but more so, material.

    #1056938
    Joseph
    Participant

    Again, my point about style is that the differences are quite subtle. Perhaps you are paying more for “better” style shirts, but nevertheless we are not talking about major differences in style. Either shirt is essentially all white. You’d be “hard-pressed” (pardon the pun) to walk into a shul on Shabbos and point out major differences between the mispallelim’s shirts. (Or fedora hats, for that matter.)

    IMHO, there is more justification for purchasing a better quality shirt than a better quality hat. The lower quality shirts, in my experience, wear out very quickly and the cost savings of the cheaper shirt is more expensive in the long-term due to the need to replace it rather quickly. Various brands of the less expensive fedora hats sold in the heimishe market, on the other hand, while they don’t last *as* long as a Borsalino do last long enough that the earlier replacement cost is less than the price differential to purchase a Borsalino when considering the time and cost. (And this is without even considering the loss of investment opportunity on paying extra to purchase a Borsalino.)

    Also, with expensive longer-lasting hats there is the risk of it being damaged/lost and thus raising your cost even further with an early replacement. With a lower cost hat that has an earlier replacement date in the first place, even if it is damaged or lost it causes you a lower loss than a damaged/lost expensive hat since it is more likely closer to its replacement date anyways – and it cost less in the first place. And the risk of damage/loss with the hats we wear every day, either most/all of the day or at least three times a day, is not insignificant.

    #1056939

    Low quality shirts look pretty bad even new, in my opinion. The price difference between a $12 cheap shirt or $20 respectable shirt (stafford, kirkland, eagle, ect..) or a $30 (Charles Thyrwitt) is not crazy, but the difference is huge. And yes, I can walk into shul shabbos morning and tell you who is wearing a low quality shirt faster than I can tell you who is wearing a Borsalino. Low quality shirts look, feel, and last like paper.

    #1056940

    Lior: I’m not arguing with you, I’m agreeing and elaborating a bit.

    #1056941
    pierrody
    Member

    A borsalino clearly marks its wearer as someone who pays attention to their appearance – which, in moderation, is an important quality of a ben torah!

    #1056942
    flatbusher
    Participant

    yayin, and so when you see someone with a low quality shirt, what is your opnion of that person? Do you judge by the quality of his shirt? What if that is what he can afford? I don’t know how old you are, but I’m close to 50 and been around awhile and I do not engage in such a petty pastime as studying the quality of the clothes of people in shul. If someone is wearing a nice tie or suit I may compliment it, but to be able to distinguish the quality of a shirt or hat, is mudenna.

    #1056943
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Did I miss something? YYBC seemed to be judging the shirt, not the person.

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