Are anti trumpers actual liberals?

Free collage for all? No.
More taxes and regulations? More taxes for the rich who trump gave a tax break to. Regulations based on safety not on money.
Open borders? legal immigration
everyone white automatically inherently racist? no.
All policemen bigoted? no. only those who kill unarmed black people not threatening them
Pro abortion? no frum jew is pro abortion. the debate is whether abortion should be legal
Anti 2a? anti a fascist president who wants to stay president by disenfranchising 80,000,000 americans who voted him out.
Iran nuclear deal? whatever keeps the israel, american and the world safe

Do the pro trumpers really not care that 265,000 americans died from covid? a disgrace.

Rav Moshe was pro-Roe v Wade because in the system we have now, you can ask your Rov and base the decision on that. What would happen if your Rov paskened that an abortion is required (due to a mother’s life being in danger) and the government says no?

Personally, though, I’d be happy if the Court overturned Roe.

I do not swear allegiance to anything other than Hashem and His Torah. I find that the Republican Party and the American Conservative stance is slightly closer to my allegiances than the Democratic Party. Therefore I am a political conservative. But, now here’s the kicker, that means I do not have to agree with everything the GOP does. And I certainly do not have to support everyone who calls themselves a Republican.

So just because I don’t support the particular mushchis who joins whatever party is convenient for himself, does not mean I am automatically in support of yenner party and the extremist positions of certain people on their.

Oh, and Trump himself once wrote an entire book called The American We Deserve advocating for universal single-payer healthcare. He only stopped voicing that opinion after 2010 when he realized that being a Republican suited his means more and the GOP doesn’t like universal healthcare.

I may never understand why they shove that into every conversation as if they believe nobody should have died. The projection was 2 million. The precautions are to slow the spread, not stop it.

“What would happen if your Rov paskened that an abortion is required (due to a mother’s life being in danger) and the government says no?”

That is happening NOW in El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Malta. Now in Malta a woman can simply take a ferry to Italy, but women are dying because ALL abortions are banned in those countries.

Never Trumpers are true conservatives who still believe in controlling the national deficit, free trade, strong alliances, and moral leadership. Never Trumpers are opposed to Trumpian populism which has nothing to do with true conservatism. Never Trumpers also oppose Trumps non-stop spreading of lies and disinformation which has only escelated post his historic election loss. Never Trumpers put the country over the party and oppose all of Trump’s attempts to subvert democracy. Never Trumpers were wildly successful in bringing about Trump’s downfall.

TOVP,

Your question was are anti-trumpers actual liberals? You are asking in a jewish frum coffee room, so I assume that you mean to ask the jewish frum members of the CR.
If you would only have asked economic issues , I could understand.
But you asked if we believe that all whites are automatically inherently racist or all policemen bigoted.
Those are not real questions. They are shtuchs. Because some far left liberals and POC proclaim to believe them does not make the beliefs less asinine.
And, yes I am a social conservative like everyone who tries to keep the Torah way of life. Helping other people, and certainly the unfortunate, is part of the Torah way of life.

Frum anti-trumpers are in the minority and have been libeled , marginalized, discounted, and trashed by the frum media for the past 4 years. As if we all are neturei karta’niks or not even frum because we are anti-trump even after moving the embassy to Jerusalem or after Rubashkin’s sentence was commuted.
One of the best summaries I have heard about the (former) republican party (now called Trumpism party ) is that Mitt Romney and John McCain were the leading representatives of republican ideas 4 years ago and now they are despised in the republican party and they did not even change a single view.

Jewish frum never trumpers did not all of a sudden become liberal’s over the past 4 years.
Similarly, just because a frum jew supports trump does not lessen his belief in chayim aruchim and וכן בשביל כל פיקוח נפש, ואפילו ספק פיקוח נפש מצוה לחלל עליו את השבת, ולעשות בשבילו כל איסורי דאורייתא, שאין לך דבר שעומד בפני פיקוח נפש, כי לא נתנה התורה אלא למען החיים שנאמר אשר יעשה אותם האדם וחי בהם

I am sorry for my uncalled for question. I ask that you mochel me.

PS. There is a bigger discussion and maybe you can start a post and that is how did 80% of the americans who voted for trump (56,000,000 people) decide – only after trump lost and called the election unfair – that it must be that the democrat’s stole the election via massive fraud (that cannot be proven! ) ?
If Trump would have acted like all other president’s and conceded would you still believe the narishkeit?

There are plenty of anti-Trump Republicans and conservatives, e.g., William Kristol, Bret Stephens, the Republicans who run The Lincoln Project. It is not enough for a politician’s views to align with yours. He/She must also be competent, educated, experienced in governing, moral, honest, and even-tempered. Trump fails all those tests. Plenty of Democratic and liberal politicians also fail those tests.

Religious right-wingers – Jewish, evangelical Christians, others – chose to overlook Trump’s incompetence, et al. I would like to hear from some YWN readers why they did so.

I am a Liberal Democrat.
Liberal is NOT the same as radical Left. I am NOT a fan or supporter of AOC or Bernie Sanders (who is NOT a Democrat, but caucuses with them).

Free College for all?
Free public college tuition for all. why shouldn’t today’s have the advantage that my parents got with free tuition at CCNY and Hunter College in the 1930s? Connecticut grants free community college to every instate High School graduate effective with the class of 2020.
If you want private higher education, to live on campus, etc. You pay for the costs above tuition.

More taxes? Not more taxes, but higher. I’d eliminate the tax cuts that Trump pushed through Congress that benefited the wealthy and hurt the lower and middle classes. I’d keep increasing sin taxes on tobacco. This might price people out of smoking, cut disease and death and the public burden of caring for it’s victims.

Open borders, NO. Make visas easier to get for relatives of those already here and true refugees. How many families/ancestors of CR members git in because they had a relative who had come first and/or were refugees of Pogroms or the shoah?

Everyone white automatically racist? NO, but many are. There is systemic racism in bith our police departments and housing regulations, Out town’s police have been sanctioned by the state for its racism. 3-5 acre minimum zoning in the suburbs keeps out both Blacks and frum Jews.

Are policemen bigoted? No more than the rest of society, but they have guns, use force and can intimidate those they loathe.

Pro-Abortion, NO. Pro-choice is NOT the same as pro-abortion. As an adoptive parent I wouldn’t have my youngest if her birth mother aborted the fetus. That said, It is not my right to enforce my views on a woman who is pregnant. It is between the woman. the father-to-be and her doctor. A woman who is pregnant by rape or incest or actually a non-consenting minor should not be forced by the state to carry a pregnancy to term. That is Cruel and Unusual Punishment.

Anti-Second Amendment? No, but I favor stronger gun laws, education, testing, etc. Personally I have no problem with those who belong to the National Guard (our well regulated militia) bearing arms. Would I own a gun, NO. Would I permit a guest to bring one into my home or office, also no.

Iran Nuclear Deal, needs work. Poorly enforced in the past, but better than what we have now,

just do that you know. a vote for Biden is a vote for the leftists. please understand when you hear Biden said’ that id not true. Biden said nothing. He probably isn’t aware that he was elected president of the US. Anyone who voted Biden will be a partner in the Toeiva’ laws they will be enacting R”L

The “arguments” made in this thread are in actuality insipid, irrational leftist talking points. So,
for example:
“WE NEED HIGHER TAXES IN ORDER TO AVOID DEFUNDING POLICE” – that’s an interesting spin but not even close to the real reason de-funders such as Marxist BLM, Antifa want to abolish law enforcement. And implementing change in law enforcement institutions would require more not less funding.
“Open borders? NO BUT WE NEED MUCH HIGHER LEVELS OF LEGAL IMMIGRATION” – and how do you think that might affect the lives and livelihoods of the lowest earner demographic groups which include minority groups and legal immigrants.
“Iran nuclear deal? whatever keeps the israel, american and the world safe.” – Israel and her supporters opposed the Iran deal; so did the more moderate middle east nations who want a safer middle east.
“Everyone white automatically racist? NO, but many are.” Really?! Exactly how many? And do you have any idea what kind of damage and disenfranchisement this horrific game of identity politics is wreaking and what the future ramifications can be. The overwhelming majority of Americans believe that racism should be identified, called out, prevented, and punished wherever it occurs – be grateful you live in this not-perfect but incredibly wonderful country where the goal is liberty and justice for all.
“A woman who is pregnant by rape or incest or actually a non-consenting minor should not be forced by the state to carry a pregnancy to term.” Typical strawman argument – statistically, the numbers of abortions due to these horrors is less than 1% – the vast majority of abortions are abortions of convenience. And last but not least –
“Do the pro trumpers really not care that 265,000 americans died from covid? a disgrace.” Reality check – Trump didn’t kill those people – Covid did. There is no logic or evidence to suggest that this pandemic would have been handled more responsibly by another leader; in fact, statistics suggest the contrary – projected Covid fatalities were much higher than what occurred. Every single death is a tragedy – something we can all agree on.
It seem to me that anti Trumpers hate Trump because they view him as being “incompetent” “deranged, a mushchis, spreading lies and disinformation” – these are subjective OPINIONS about character, not policy issues. The data however showed that Trump did a marvelous job with the economy and the job market, stemmed the tide of illegal immigration, got America out of an exploitive NAFTA deal and a diabolical, delusional Iran deal, was the best president ever for Israel (just ask 70% of Israeli’s, combatted anti-semitism on college campuses, created opportunities zones for black Americans
etc.
What will we have to argue about when he leaves office?

You want to know what political viewpoints Democrats have or you want to heap on viewpoints you disagree with.
How about what political viewpoints you hold other than admiring Trump:

Lack of education opportunities for many thereby resulting in a dumber workforce and falling behind in the advances America makes?
Less taxes and a bigger deficit then Trump’s tax cuts already caused? Or tax policies that correlate with increasing economic inequity and the societal unrest that economic inequity is associated with (I know… Those jealous people are wrong… But they are still there)… Myself I do just fine economically and would most likely pay more tax under liberal policies, so not my direct personal financial interest here… Well, other than I think too much economic inequity can also be bad for the economy, whereas reducing it can be beneficial for the economy, so that would be good for me.
Less regulations thereby allowing companies to pollute dangerously and not be responsible for their actions causing society to suffer higher medical costs and dealing with the negative consequences.
No immigration thereby preventing employers from getting necessary workers (and justifying FDR’s actions in sending Jews to their deaths by closing borders)?
Not recognizing racism and allowing schisms in society to fester and grow causing untold harm to current and future generations?
Not recognizing issues with police and making sure they understand they need to respect the rights of those they police. How long did it take in Germany for a wonderful police force to be a participant in the most horrific crimes?
Anti-abortion and having the government intrude in private lives in a way the vast majority in this country don’t want (you want freedom of religion including ability for people to bow down to idols a serious sin, yet you want the Government to intrude in private lives with issues such as abortion… seems hypocritical… For the record I am very much pro freedom of religion and think the government should not get involved in abortion as most people in this country prefer)?
Blindly, pro the 2nd amendment, without any sensible limitations, and having a country with one of the worst gun related casualty rates (crime and otherwise).
Iran Deal??? – Does anyone here actually have the necessary info other than limited info that has been fed to them to even access whether this is good or bad? I definitely don’t. Not even sure why this is a political issue, rather it should be a question whether it is effective or not. Trump decided it was a political issue because before he was in office and had access to the necessary classified info he was decrying it. I have zero confidence that Trump’s actions in regard to it were based on actual intelligence and rather they were based on a campaign promise and his despise of Obama. All you need to think this way is to listen to pretty much everyone that worked with Trump and what they say about him afterwards.
Etc?

As a general rule (outside of abortion), I don’t believe that Torah or religion should drive a politicians position. It would beg the question of where do we draw the line. Should we lobby shatnez being illegal to wear? Why can’t one argue against milah, that it should be a persons choice? Is it sheva mitzvos? Is it just what we consider foundations to Yiddishkeit? What dictates when we COULD impose the Torah’s views and/or when we SHOULD impose the Torah’s views.
This is not a cynical question. I am actually interested in peoples thoughts about this.

Never Trump Republicans seem to fall into one of two groups

(1)Opportunist Jerks: Take for example, The Lincoln Project. There is nothing ideological about them at all. They are career propagandists and PR people who correctly realized they can make a lot more money being anti Trump than pro Trump . Their ads have zero substance and basically just say “We hate Trump” Most of their ads are so devoid of substance that you can take the exact same ad, flip the names and a few pictures and use it as an anti democrat ads (they almost always run anti-ads. they almost never actually support any explicit policy) There is no way they can credibly claim they went after moderate and anti-Trump Republicans like Susan Collins because of anti-Trump ideology. Trump is also far from the first person they stabbed in the back when it suited their purposes.
or

(2)People who have a very one dimensional view of Trump: He is a not a nice guy. That overrides any and all good he may do. They don’t want to think or are in denial about any good Trump may have done. For example I asked a very prominent frum anti-Trump activist about the fact that had Hillary Clinton been president, last week’s supreme court ruling about Cuomo closing shuls would have been very different. In an answer that sounded like cognitive dissonance to me he answered that he never opposed any of Trump’s supreme courts picks. Technically speaking that may be true. Practically speaking it isn’t. Another frum anti Trumper vehemently denied to me that Trump had any connection to the Israel-UAE-Bahrain peace deal. Those people may not be liberal. They don’t seem to realize the consequences of a Joe Biden presidency.

Wow Health lots of anger in that post. You help show that the point of this post in the first place was to heap your righteous indignation on the Libs. What I appreciate that you have clearly shown is the ideological nature of whatever it is that you consider your political ideology is. Definitely it is not based in religion as you would be very opposed to freedom of religion which allows people to worship idols which is an affront to God. It is simply ridiculous how you decide that being anti-abortion is your religious calling and eradicating idolatry is not important. Clearly your politics are not based in Judaism. Maybe they are based in Limbaughism which has morphed into Trumpism.

“He probably isn’t aware that he was elected president of the US.”

He has been making an awful lot of great appointments to important positions for someone who isn’t supposed to know what is going on. Of course anti-Semites and misogynists aren’t happy with him.

“WE NEED HIGHER TAXES IN ORDER TO AVOID DEFUNDING POLICE” – that’s an interesting spin but not even close to the real reason de-funders such as Marxist BLM, Antifa want to abolish law enforcement. And implementing change in law enforcement institutions would require more not less funding.”

I have been opposing the BLM national leadership since 2004. And Bernie Sanders agrees with you on that last sentence. Are you a Sanders supporter?

“Really?! Exactly how many? And do you have any idea what kind of damage and disenfranchisement this horrific game of identity politics is wreaking and what the future ramifications can be.”

You don’t have any idea what kind of damage and disenfrancisement racism has caused.

I am old enough to have gone to a segregated all white elementary school. The companion all black school was a dump, with few resources, and poor pay for everyone. Your horrific game of denying the effects of government-imposed racism is what has the horrible ramifications. You can argue about what should be done now, but we can’t even have a conversation if you don’t get out of denial about what was going on in America from 1619 to about 1970.

“you can’t use 1% of cases to justify universal policy.”

Yes you can. We do it all the time in halachah. We don’t keep kosher 99% of the time. We don’t keep Shabbat 99% of the time. We don’t do brit milah 99% of the time. And we don’t allow women to have medically necessary abortions 99% of the time.

“and justifying FDR’s actions in sending Jews to their deaths by closing borders”

FDR didn’t close the borders. A Republican Congress and President had done so in 1924. ” Any alien who at any time after entering the United States is found to have been at the time of entry not entitled under this Act to enter the United States, or to have remained therein for
a longer time than permitted under this Act or regulations made thereunder, shall be taken into
custody and deported…”

As I pointed out earlier, though, from all countries in the Western Hemisphere the borders were open.

ENS -“Definitely it is not based in religion as you would be very opposed to freedom of religion which allows people to worship idols which is an affront to God. It is simply ridiculous how you decide that being anti-abortion is your religious calling and eradicating idolatry is not important.”

It’s so sad that to defend yourself – you make up a whole Story!
Who mentioned Idols & then you attribute my post about them?!?
Maybe you never took American History?!?
Our Country was started as an UK Colony, where the religion is Xianity.
Hey, maybe Indians worshipped Idols and then your post would make a little Sense?!?

ENS -“so you are just avoiding the issue rather than confronting the inherent contradiction.”

You obviously can’t understand Simple posts!
No one, but you, is discussing Idol Worship.
I was discussing the Legality of Abortion.

Don’t make up any Scenario, which would be Unlikely to Occur in the USA!
If it would ever Occur here, then we could have a topic about it.

Your defense of why Abortion should be legal here, Namely if it’s Illegal – it would promote Idol Worship here, is Beyond
Absurd!

Yeserbius123 -“But he’s “just” a mezaneh so it’s OK I guess?”

I have No idea what you are talking about! I never heard that in the News.
But it’s More Likely that you don’t know what the 7 Mitzvos are!

Charlie Hall,

As a follow up to “FDR didn’t close the borders. A Republican Congress and President had done so in 1924. ” Any alien who at any time after entering the United States is found to have been at the time of entry not entitled under this Act to enter the United States, or to have remained therein for
a longer time than permitted under this Act or regulations made thereunder, shall be taken into
custody and deported…” , I heard from an Adam Gadol ( who was quoting another Adam Gadol) that the 1929 Stock market crash was a punishment from Shomayim for the way America started to turn it’s back on refugees and immigrants.

Just ponder that, when the right claims that all the liberal toavos are the exclusive reasons for Hashem’s anger but then they couldn’t care less about refugees or immigrants.

The dor hamabul’s fate was sealed because of gezel. Also called white collar crime. Insider trading , , borrowing and not repaying etc …..