- This topic has 40 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 1 month ago by .
-
Posts
-
I’m confused and I admit it.
I am Misnagid…Litvak on the Paternal side and Yekke on the Maternal side.I just saw two videos of Apple Throwing Tischim at Hasidic Courts Neilas Chag Sukkps.
Please explain this (odd) behavior to me.
I was taught it was forbidden to throw food. Food was treated reverently. Brochos were said before and after eating.
It reminded me of fans scrambling to catch a foul ball at a baseball game, not caring who they pushed out of the way and who might get injured.
I was appalled when Trump was videoed tossing rolls of paper towels to hurricane victims in Puerto Rico and here I see Hasidic Rebbes throwing food into the crowd, one even got up from his seat as he got into the action.
Though I’m a Misnagid, I’m not anti-Hasidim and do support their institutions. I watched the video of the Sanz-Klausenberger Tish with interest as I first visited their court in Netanya (Kiryat Sanz) in 1979. My Zaidy has sponsored a number of Klausenburgers who had survived the war for entry to the USA and we maintained a respect for their sect and visited every time we are in EY.
So, enlighten me please
Only thing I don’t get about it that the people aren’t careful not to step on sefarim. And Are they not embarrassed to be in front of their rebbe without a yarmulke (because it falls off when the run to grab).?
Its called Shayraaim (Or something close to that, I forgot the exact word)
food touched by a Tzadik is considered holy and considered good to keep, there are even Shaalots if one can keep Sharaaim that was chametz over Pesach
Non-misnaged here, CTL.
The apple throwing I’ve seen left me feeling very uncomfortable.
I never got an explanation that made me feel better.
I deal with it now by averting my eyes and never watching those videos.When I went to Chabad Hebrew school growing up, my Rebbetzin taught me that clowns have a very important tafkid.
Clowns bring joy to the world. They are humble, and hide their faces. They invest their lives in making people happy.
Now… don’t clowns throw pies?
Congratulations CTL on being an online commentor who admitted to not knowing something instead of attacking it.
Or the killer clowns….
exactly was going to say that by us there was no throwing food (wasn’t alive then….) but everyone got the rebbe stood for hours and hours giving and making sure everyone got and didn’t get leg out.RY!!! Two points for that one!!!
CTL. I’m Chassidic, though not belonging to that particular community. I do belong to a community that’s mostly mainstream… additional focus and attention put on various aspects of Avodas HaShem. (will ืื”ื not elaborate…don’t wish to reveal too much). While it is NOT our minhag to do so, and by us it would indeed seem strange, know that these are Minhagim passed on from leaders who were Torah giants, had Torah, Gemarah and Halachah on their fingertips. Hidden Torah and Kabbalah as well. They knew what they were doing. I think one of those is the Rebbe of Sanz, isn’t he the one who runs the Mifal HaShas and accessories? If he expects others to be baki, fluent in the WHOLE Torah, every single part of it, doesn’t it make sense that he does too?
So I’m quite sure if he actually does it, there’s a reason why. And he knows what he’s doing.
What’s exactly going on? Can’t tell you! (I’d have to be a Rebbe… then I couldn’t be blogging away here..) But I could speculate it’s a veiled method for a Chassidic master to send Yeshuos, convey his blessings for his flock.
There’s absolutely no heter whatsoever to throw food including apples. Its wrong on every level. This is just another reason people should refrain from watching even kosher vidos on line. What u think is kosher becausr ssome rebbe throws food does not make it kosher. Throwing food brings terrible tzoros to kllal yisroel.
I think it’s only throwing bread is a problem.
“Thereโs absolutely no heter whatsoever to throw food including apples”
source please?
(while I dont throw apples, I have on occasion thrown candy or bags of candy at chassaanim)Food in wrappers or bags is not a problem to throw
Takes2
“Food in wrappers or bags is not a problem to throw”and why not?
Also note: you havent answered my question.
Regarding permissibility of throwing food. See Shulchan Oruch Orach Chaim 171. Bread may never be thrown.
Other foods which are soft and will become disgusting when thrown, like ripe figs, are assur to throw. Hard fruit which will not become disgusting like nuts or quinces are mutar to throw.
It would seem that firm apples thrown to people who catch them are not a problem to throw.Zdad, shrayim are different.
The food that the Rebbe eats from on Shabbos Kodesh attains a level of holiness, and the Rebbe, often with his hand and not a keili, distributes small portions of his leftovers or โshrayimโ to his Chassidim. Most if not all Chassidish Rebbes have a โtishโ Friday night where they speak, sing, and give shrayim.
The apple throwing Minhag is not as prevalent and the apples are not shrayim.I dont think you are supposed to eat Shayraim
ZD
Of course you eat sherayim that is the point.I’m less familiar with the apples thing. Though I do know that there is no issur to throw apples as Gales correctly points out.
I have seen Shayraim with Fruits (Maybe not Apples, might have been grapes or oranges, but defiantly fruit from a fruit platter).
Ubiquin, I have seen tshuvoth about Shayraim (It was about Bread) and how to keep this bread over Pesach), It seems it might be permitted to keep this bread, but Im not 100% sure
ZD, the point of Sheraim IS to eat it. And its source is from the Torah:
ืืขืืืชื ืืช ืืืื ืืืืืื ืืืจื ืืช ืืืื ืืืช ืืืืื ืืืกืจืชื ืืืื ืืงืจืื
Someone who serves HaShem will have his ‘bread’ blessed, HaShem ‘blesses’ the food, so that ืืืกืจืชื ืืืื ืืงืจืื – it attains some power / segulah to keep sicknesses away.ZD
“I have seen Shayraim with Fruits..”Yu should go to a tish more often.
You’d see shyrayim with wine followed by fish followed by soup followed by kugel etc etc…The shyrayim is eaten (some might be brought home for family members (though the soup is tricky to bring home).
I have never seen a teshuvah related to keeping bread over Pesach, thougg I do not doubt they exist. But that doesnt mean that that is the point of sherayim, and it certainly doesn mean you are not supposed to eat shyrayim
Golfer, just because you’re “uncomfortable” with a Minhag Yisroel what gives you the right to voice your discomfort regarding the minhag? Can I publicly declare myself uncomfortable with the correctness of people beating aravos in shul on Hoshana Rabba?
“Thereโs absolutely no heter whatsoever to throw food including apples. Its wrong on every level”….
I think chazal bring down that the issur is not on throwing food but rather on throwing rolls of paper towels at people suffering from hunger and thirst in the aftermath of a tropical storm.
Moral of the story is that even if it looks inappropriate it still may be OK if the person doing it has connections in the right places
joseph, apple throwing is not a minhag Yisrael – it is the minhag of a few sects of Chasidim. The vast majority of frum Jews do not throw apples, or food in general.
Jos, to answer your final question first, you may not criticize or disparage, but whether you may express discomfort- I suppose that would depend on the source of your discomfort and how valid you feel it is, vis a vis the validity and discernible mekoros of the minhag in question (in your case chavitas arava).
I’m not going to elaborate on my discomfort here to avoid saying anything that might be misconstrued as critical or disparaging.
V’dai lechakima…Joseph….I think just about everyone here in CR, and indeed virtually all of klal yisroel would share your sense of discomfort and outrage with a minhag of beating people with aravos in shul on Hoshana Rabba…however, that’s not the issue here. If that is the minhag of the makom, so be it….
Takah — by definition virtually, a minhag is defined in that it is a minhag of a subset, not all, of Klal Yisroel.
Golfer — “how valid you feel it is”? So each and every one of us can make a self-determination as to whether minhagim others practice are what we “feel” is valid? Or every Yankel and Rivka can pull out a few seforim and say based on what they read they “feel” that Kehilla Aleph’s minhagim are bubkas and feel wrong?
Joseph is confusing a minhag yisroel with a minhag shtus. The latter is what we are discussing here. And for Joseph to align chavitas aravos with ืืืื ืืืื goes to show you alot about How self made minhagim take off.
This year’s version of the question is much better than last year https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/apple-throwing-tish
Thank you CTL
I dont “get it” either. I’m sure many people who do “get it”, question minhagim followed where I daven. I’m not asking them to “get it” any more than they expect me to “get it”.
“beating aravos”
I dont beat my aravos.
APY – there’s a difference between “question” minhagim and mocking minhagim (or publicly declaring oneself “uncomfortable” with it.)
Shlugging kaporos with live chickens is not a mitzvas aseh mi’doraisah any more than throwing apples at the Rebbe’s tisch or beating the guy in front of you with arovos if he stops suddenly during hakafos……the point being that we we neither disparage or vilify other yidden for their idiosyncratic minhagim or the particular way they choose to practice a mitzvas aseh (per the instructions from their LRP)…tolerance and respect go a long way towards achdus at a time the “A'” word is taking a terrible beating in so many other areas of our lives.
True, CT, you kept the tone courteous.
If you’re still interested, and you make further inquiries outside CR, and you get some info that sheds light on these apples, please come back here and share.
Meanwhile we hunker down, take out the down quilts, and get ready for the snowball throwing that comes next on the calendar. (- never heard of a snowball throwing rebbe, but you never know what esoteric concepts can be hiding inside those individually shaped and frozen pristine white flakes…)Takahmamash, as ubiquitin pointed out, throwing bags of candy at aufrufs is pretty common. Interestingly, at my aufruf an elderly yekkish woman who was not familiar with the minhag took the candy/raisins/etc. out of the bag and threw the loose contents. I gather from that that yekkes don’t have this minhag.
@CTLAWYER
Does your mothers’ family do the yekkishe minhag of throwing challah at the Shabbos table?Personally, I just tack it on to the list of bizarre Chassidishe minhagim, with no mekor in Chazal, that I am at a loss to understand. Included in that is the concept of the men and women spending Rosh Hashonna separately (men at the Rebbe/Uman, women with their mother and sisters), the light off-hands discipline when it comes to kids making trouble, the nepotistic patriarchal leadership (as opposed to the Misnagdish meritocracy), women shaving their hair, men getting the “tennis ball” hair cut, etc.
The “nepotistic patriarchal leadership” is actual halacha that very much has mekor in Halacha that specifies a Rov’s child succeeding his position. Regarding discipline, they tend to have stricter discipline than the average frum families.
If one views this as a religious practice, it does seem kinda odd. But if one regards it just a form of entertainment, if it really any more odd or pointless than the common practice of throwing around a small leather object for entertainment?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.