Anyone Else Worried About Today’s Frum Music?

All through history we were influenced by our surrounding culture. If you listen to chassideshe music it sounds like a cathedral, same with ashkenaz and sephardic music each to their respective country, maybe it’s because we use the same instruments. Now we are influenced by our surrounding rock and pop culture. With this in mind what is jewish music???

i like the music and stuff , as long as its used in a normal way(not jumping up and down with a guitar in your hands and that kind of stuff).

What’s even more troublesome is how our frum Bais Yaakov plays have our frum girls dancing to songs that are not jewish at all. Our girls who until now stayed away from this type of music are becoming familiar with these cd’s, and worse are dancing to it. How could the same school that is concerned with their chinuch allow this to go on under their supervision.

I never thought much about it until about a year or so ago. I saw a video of a very well known figure in the Jewish music world (no need to mention names) performing at a camp. I was appalled by what I saw: the boys (black hat, mostly mid-teens from what I could tell) hopping up and down and gyrating like animals. It looked like something you would see in the lowliest of goyishe dance clubs. If this kind of music engenders THAT kind of behavior, then I am VERY worried

Besides the Rambam, the GEMARA in Gittin says that -since the churban Beis HaMikdash, casual music listening is assur. However (poskim (such as R’ Chaim Pinchas Sheinberg)say-) the reason why the world is noheg to listen to music is because we’d be too depressed without it!

Regarding permitting music in general (not just Jewish music): Rov Soloveitchik permitted all classical music, even when a woman was singing, and even opera. He said that it elevated us. And he meant it as halachah le’maaseh: Yeshiva University held a fundraiser tonight at the Metropolitan Opera and has been doing so for many years, and my own rabbi, a talmid of The Rov, attended an opera last spring.

I don’t know why you think the music at Israeli chasunnas is nice. I always come away with a headache from the drums. Also they play the same songs. They just skip the instruments.

I’m not worried about it at all. I don’t listen to it, nor do my children. It’s classical music, chazzanut and great jazz for us.

Music brings out kochos hanefesh.

A malchuskik nigun like Kel Nekomos brings out romeuskikeh feelings. Songs of devekus bring to devekus.

What do you think jungle music does? It brings out the animal nature of a person!

Also, there are many frum people today who are familiar with the goyishe tunes being adapted to Jewish words. Unfortunately, when the music is played, the old words pop into the brain. (I say unfortunatey because, although Hashem surely chose the upbringing of each of us, we might wish we had the zchus to stop listening to that music earlier, or to purify our neshomos sufficiently that those memories would be eradicated.)

Examples:

Ayelet hashachar, star of the morning….morning has broken (Cat Stevens, I believe)

Anyone know which song has a big piece of “You’ve got a friend” from James Taylor?

Yidden – from Ghenghis Khan…

And – the worst (in my opinion) – I protested to a frum station that was playing “Halleluka” as part of their daily schedule. That tune was used by George Harrison (of the Beatles) to sing about an avodah zorah, and those who knew that song do NOT appreciate having those words played in their head!

>haifagirl wrote:

>Actually, “Morning has Broken” was popularized by Cat Stevens. You’ll find it in many >protestant hymnals.

Which serves to underscore the point…

Isn’t he a muslim?

BS”D

Skilah, srefah, hereg vechenek

Gaiva, taiva, …I forget how it ended…it ended in vegilui arayois , and other versions included asher boro yetzer horo boro Bnei Akiva, or (fill in your choice) Yeshiva among other variants.

Another version is asher boro dinei nefashois dinei mamoinos

Skila, sreyfa, hereg vechenek, something, koreis, malkois veknas..

chanie t, my uncle told me that another song they banned at that time in torah vdaas was…….Al hanisim val hapurkon….now they sing it Everywhere. go figure

“On youtube there’s a colored fellow singing Lipa’s Vhiskin loi meemeni”

Hey, the Hazkeni singers have more soul, than Yackov Schwecky (check em out on you tube, moderators didnt allow my last attempt at posting a link) and certainly “out schwecky”, Mr schwecky himself. Gospel singers, singing carlbach niggunim is all over youtube, his music moved the soul, which is what gospel music, lihavdil elef havdalos, is supposed to do as well.

With that said. I dont mind playing todays jewish music. I’m often in the car for long drives on the highway, and I’d rather hum along to a fast song with hebrew words than something from pink floyd, zz to or the doors (which i find myself increasingly doing as todays jewosh music gets worse and worse).

I agree with you, rivkib

Music is so powerful, and can even be transformative in a spiritual way.

What’s this silly argument about letting down our standards so that at least they will listen to this instead of Goyish music. How’s about the other way around? These horrible songs actually introduce our youngsters to Goyish music.

Think of music, or more to the point, rhythm as wine, which is Mesamach Elokim Va’anoshim. The right amount elevates the soul but too much evokes a very base behaviour. There is no need to expound on this. This is something anybody can try out at home, if you’re honest with yourself. Anybody can see how loose and wild the Bochurim become when this stuff is turned on.

How many times will people bring up this issue of Yiddish music being influenced by the surroundings? Our clothing is also influenced by our surroundings. Does that make it Mutar to follow everything that comes out? Yes, styles seep in, but there is a filter system. Originally, having buttons was considered a very modern thing to have. Understandably, some people put it on regardless, while others don it for business reasons. Later, most people have it besides the few Prushim. In the end, we all have it. But, certain things just don’t get in.

I happen to be a big fan of classical music. Many Gedolim listened to classical music. That’s not what is meant by Goyishe music. We all sing Happy Birthday although noone has to expose it as a Goyishe song. Using the clothing analogy, I’m sure you get the point. When we say Goyishe clothing, we don’t mean something that a non-Jew put on; we mean something that a Yid should not be wearing due to its character.

It might sound wild, but I’m very sure that the state of our music has played a big role in bringing up a generation of spiritless youth.

EDITED

Classical music is not bound to a specific time. When we say, classical music, we usually mean to include the Romantic, Baroque, Classic, and all. So, did Bach’s music influence Haskala?

Actually I did not bring any proof from the generation. I gave a cause to it. But, do you think that the Enlightenment was a dipping point for the world? I wouldn’t want to be caught saying so! It was a rational age. Unfortunately, many behaved like teenagers, that just got some brains and therefore feel smarter that anyone who ever walked the face of this planet.

One thing I’m sure you’ll agree we shouldn’t take from the Goyim is Haskafa. You seem to have adapted their concept of evolving morals, which they confuse with evolving etiquette. Wild and Megushem are not relative terms.

I agree we shouldn’t take Hashkafa from the Goyim but we have been adapting their muic

Orach Chaim Tav kuf samech. The gezerah against music zecher lchurban. Sometime, somwhere, the cat got out of the bag. Klezmerim were always there and allowed at weddings,and chazonnim in shuls, but particularly with the advent of recording, and particularly on the american scene, the portzei gader spawned an industry. One doesn’t fully understand his rebbe for forty years, but sometimes there is a bright spark that you can catch. My rebbe regarded musicians with deep derision. We assumed it was because the degree of work and practice required was a huge bitul torah. A few rare attendances at “concerts” gave me perspective. It seemed that at every performance, after the performers had the audience emotionally hooked, they would put down the instruments and open their mouths with all manner of krum philosophy. Thats were the most damage is done. That said, I have seen music be the glue that held children together between rebellion and mentchlich.

This is not an issue to be taken lightly. Being brought up with this stuff has a very non-spiritual effect, to put it mildly. This is besides the likely link to ADD, as per a certain study with mice.

Would you apply the same thinking to the way of sliding the body that often comes along with this type of music, to say that perhaps it brings you closer to Hashem?

I’ll only address those who don’t think so. It’s pretty obvious that the music is suggesting that kind of movement and behavier. Even if you’ll stop your children from acting out the music, do you think the general mood and thought pattern doesn’t go into his psyche?

The fact is that music goes deeper into the person than most other messages. This is partly due to the fact that it comes as an enjoyment, which automaticaly has the person agreeing with it. Also, music is something that you feel along with. If the music is conveying feelings that you never anticipated, now, these emotions are a part of you.

And again, the issue is not about who made it, it is about who it will make!

This “issue” is hundreds of years old – yawn.

Who said that it’s only called Jewish if it’s slow music???

Rebel,

No one said that (at least not that I saw)

There a slow non jewish songs too

It is packed with rock n’roll, jazz, and dance club music. I was at a Chassidic wedding recently, a wedding of rebbe’s children, a big, chassidic wedding and they played George Michael’s I’ll Never Dance Again.

The musicians know better and will get gehennim for it.

“This is besides the likely link to ADD, as per a certain study with mice.”

It’s a good thing we’re not mice.

These stidies are on par with the studies of playing music to plants, where rock music kills the plants. Of course they kill plants and mice, they have a much lower tolerance to bass than we do. If you play the same rock song with and without bass, without bass will gie you the same results as classical music. But play a classical song with bass, than the mice and plants respond just like to rock music. It has nothing to do with the syle, just hat plants and mice are more sensitive to bass than we are.

Humans will also react like those mice if you play them sounds with enough base to make them go mad. The army does this with super-deep frequencies outside terrorist hideouts. But regular music has an amount of bass humans can tolerate quite well.