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The current media circus in EY now stars Agriculture Ministry vs. Uri Maklev MK (chareidi watchdog). From what I have seen, the trucked in chickens are spent laying hens, at the end of a hard life. They look like shmattas and the matzav of being boxed up, loaded by forklift and tranported does not help their appearance, or promote their health. How fast a truckload of birds can be processed on the street is obviously inevitably longer than the normal industrial process. Add to this the time lapse, by law these trucks can only be run over nite (the meat chickens are bred to not grow feathers, and they would mostly die off if exposed to sunlight) and the chareidi world here are by and large not early risers. One must be willfully blind not to sense the tzaar baalei chayim, and this is the rallying call of the AG Ministry. Just one idea slipped through the agenda. ALL poultry here suffers the same, or worse treatment. * The normal process for the culled layers is gas%trash, buried alive, or ground into soylent pink, a protein product.Grinding alive, as was done with most male chicks, was outlawed here in 2013
The Jewish anti-Semites playing the part of animal lovers have been fighting Jewish practices for many years now.
I’m confused. Do you think when they’re transported for shechitah each chicken gets to go in a Learjet, premium corn and water from glass Ein Gedi bottles served by a stewardess? And when they arrive, they wait in a private lounge until the shochet comes and sings them to sleep before shechting them?
If you let the slaughtered chickens last too long in the sun, then they are spoiled. A regular slaugher house processes the chickens fairly quckly while kaparot on the street does not.
The idea is to use the chickens to feed to poor, if they spoil they cannot be used for food
Using the chickens for tzeddakah is a very nice minhag, but it is not the ikkar. The ikkar is nefesh nachas nefesh.
You have to be careful saying “nefesh nachas nefesh”. there are opinions that Kapparot comes from Avodah Zarah
When they are transported for food it done in a way which maximizes the percentage that can actually be used for food.
I rarely do Kapporos with a chicken because I usually can’t verify that the chickens will be used for food.
Ash don’t be silly chickens can’t fly.
When you simply eat a chicken without considering the chicken’s needs, that is behaving like an animal. Animals are allowed to eat other animals.
What are a chicken’s needs?
The chicken needs food and water to survive. It needs space for comfort.
When you simply eat a chicken without considering the chicken’s needs, that is behaving like an animal. Animals are allowed to eat other animals.
This.
Why do it at all? Kapparot is not halacha.
Because it’s minhag Yisroel.
Isn’t it possible to preserve the minhag of kaparos with chickens but not be oiver on tzaar baal chaim?
I’m also a bit confused by some of the posts- I don’t believe they do the actual shecting at the kapaaros site, they just pile up the chickens and then haul them away to the slaughterhouse (presumably), where processing time should be the same as all chickens.
Chickens that I have seen at kaparos do have feathers.
Anyway, I am very thankful to my husband that his minhag is to use money.
WTP: some sites have a shochet/shochtim present.
takah: Because the RAMAH says so. However since there is an option to do it with money…we don’t have to it with a chicken or fish.
Yes the shecht the chicken after you do Kapport and then throw it into a garbage can with a bunch of other dead chickens and at the end of the day they are supposed to be hauled to a processing center, however because the chickens are not somehow kept cooler before being hauled off, they spoil and become unusable
Isn’t it possible to preserve the minhag of kaparos with chickens but not be oiver on tzaar baal chaim?
Yes of course it is. Like my local (London) minhag kaporos centre, where they are transported in the same manner as all fowl (x number of chickens per crate) in the early evening, each one taken out, shlugged, and put into another crate where they are loaded onto a truck and taken to the shachthois.
I don’t see anything in that 1-2 hour excursion that is tzaar bar lchaim and indeed the local animal rights people couldn’t find fault!
I strongly suspect that most of those protesting are just embarrassed about this minhag yisroel torah. Otherwise, they’d speak about bringing takonos and easing regulation to ensure those sites that mistreat or waste chickens change their ways.
Instead they invent new arguments each year, much like the anti-shechita groups, not to reform or better things, but to abolish and mock.
The “Pro chickens People” are unwilling to admit that most of the chickens are simply thrown out after they are slaughtered.
They are also unwilling to admit that the feces of the chicken are a sanitary issue, that is why its illegal to slaughter animals in NYC and even to own farm animals because of the waste. The blood that comes out after its slaughtered is also a sanitary issue (However when I see Kapparot with Shechta I did not see any blood) but I did see the feces which is an issue.
If you are so gung ho on doing this, go to a slaughter house somewhere outside the city. It might be a Minhag Yisroel to do so, but there is no right to slaughter a chicken in the middle of Borough Park. The Slaughter house has proper facilities to handle the waste and will make sure the chickens go to the proper use. (There are some Muslim Slaughter houses in the city, but those are permannt places that will handle the waste, If either Kapporots could be done at those locations by renting them for a week or so or someone opens their own kosher slaughterhouse in NYC that would solve these problems)
The liberals should just pretend that the chickens are African Americans being murdered in drug related and other crimes, and then they won’t have to care anymore. It seems.
Ash, the problems arise when groups set up a site without permits or permission, and by the time authorities are not and arrive all that’s left is an unsightly smelly mess
ZD,
“You have to be careful saying “nefesh nachas nefesh”. there are opinions that Kapparot comes from Avodah Zarah”
Can YOU please cite these opinions?
ZD,
“If you let the slaughtered chickens last too long in the sun, then they are spoiled. A regular slaugher house processes the chickens fairly quckly while kaparot on the street does not.”
I have not seen this in the places I’ve been to and the ones that shecht also have a group flecking and koshering the chickens as well.
This is besides have the chickens out of the transport boxes and kept in a gated off area with saw dust, feed and water.
And, have you ever been to a shlachthoiz? Sounds like you have not.
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