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Why are people so into believing that an over-weight person should expect their future spouse to accept them the way they are? Should one be expected to accept a person with a large wart on their forehead or a chronic illness which one refuses to treat?! Weight largely is in ones control and therefore something which is part of hishtadlus. Certainly in a situation where one is unable, not unwilling to control ones weight there would be room for such a belief, but in other situations how could one just be passive about the issue?
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Threads re-separated, per popular request
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by 2qwerty:
Ckbshl,
Who said that over weight person shouldnt be the norm?
Eating well used to be in style and all the skinny people were considered sick.
We try not to follow styles of the goim so as long as a person is not over weight enough to cause health problems then what is really wrong with it?
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by ckbshl:
2qwerty:
Whats wrong with it is simple: If people find it unattractive that suffices to make it a problem…
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by 2qwerty:
Ckbshl,
Well people prefer a tanned person over a pale one so do you go around advocating tanning?
If someone doesnt like something they shouldnt marry someone who they consider unattractive. Or if someone has a hard time finding a perfect person they should speak with someone they respect to reevaluate their likes and dislikes.
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by tzippi:
Some people find lack of middos attractive, if we’re going to be talking about problems.
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by ckbshl:
2qwerty, yes if tanning was identified as the inhibitor to ones ability to marry than I suppose we should advocate to do so.
People dont have enough bitachon to sit on their laurels and presume that whatever flaws they control should be left as is. Would you advise a girl to sit at home and expect a ring to fly on to her hand? Surely not! If something is known to be an issue you cant just expect it to go away!!
And speaking with a person to reevaluate their likes and dislikes is easier said than done, yet may be part of their hishtadlus too!
tzippi- A lack of midos is a whole lot harder to change than a weight issue!
R’ Yisroel Salanter purportedly quipped that it is easier to learn all of shas than to change one midda.
Think about that
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by 2qwerty:
ckbshl,
I agree that if someone has a flaw they can fix they should definitely try to fix it. But who said that being over weight is a flaw?
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by ckbshl:
Its a flaw if people perceive it as such…
maybe people girls should wear their hair in a bun and expect their dates to just accept it!
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by popa_bar_abba:
But who said that being over weight is a flaw?
Who said picking your nose is a flaw?
dressing sloppy?
biting nails?
chewing out loud?
smoking? (less unhealthy than being fat)
Maybe none of them are flaws, but why wouldn’t you want to fix things which bother people?
Now, being fat will not bother anyone except your spouse and mother, but why wouldn’t you want to fix something which bothers your spouse?
Particularly once you are married, you should be looking for ways to ingratiate yourself to your spouse.
If you know your wife doesn’t like that you spit, do you try to stop, or do you say, “she should like me as I am”?
If you know your wife doesn’t like that you smoke, do you suggest she should like you as you are?
If you know your wife would like it if you lost weight, shouldn’t you try to do so?
Do you really expect that you will do as you wish and your wife better accept it or blast her?
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by 2qwerty:
popa_bar_abba,
“…but why wouldn’t you want to fix something which bothers your spouse?”
Obviously if it bothers someones spouse then it should be discussed and/or fixed.
But why do you assume that everyone doesnt like over weight people? Where did this idea come from? Is that one of the things that Chazal suggest that we look for in a mate?
Did anyone notice that when the Jewish perception of a mate changed based on our society our divorce rate followed theirs also?!
I’m just saying people shouldnt be so shallow.
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by ckbshl:
2qwerty- I think you are confusing the issues here. Certainly we agree that middos are a crucial component to look for in a potential spouse, nevertheless that attitude of ignoring the other flaws is dangerous. Unless you are on a very high level of bitachon, one cant expect the passivity to their changeable flaws to be ignored.
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by pascha bchochma:
ckbshl:
Being significantly overweight IS a danger to health. It’s ok to be 5-10 pounds more than your “perfect” weight, but after that you should really check with a doctor.
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So the question then becomes whether he/she is a “healthy weight” or not. Nothing to do with overweight per se.
We all have fixable flaws. If we waited for them to be fixed, no one would get married.
Some flaws are more obvious than others 🙂
SJSinNYC
True, but all too often people with weight issues have them for life. Yes I’m sure you know some fat people who became skinny and vice versa but for the most part fat people just become fatter with time.
I think that what gets people’s hackles up is that there is no longer a range for healthy weight. If one’s dress size even approaches the double digits then there’s a problem. Many women look pretty good at size ten or more.
Women:
What would your response be, if your husband, in the nicest way you can imagine, told you that it bothers him that you are overweight?
Single women:
What were your response be if a guy you were dating told you, in the nicest way you can imagine, that it would bother him if you gained much weight?
popa_bar_abba
Dont expect honsesty. As far as I know and as far as I was advised, its best to never mention your wife’s weight unless it is a danger of becoming a health issue. I agree with you Id love to know what girls truly think about this.
I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE MET A WOMAN WHO a.didn’t have a mirror in her house(ie.wasn’t fully aware of her problem).
or b.didn’t desperately want to fix it.
one problem with putting on weight is that it literally makes you get tired faster when exercising.
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