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The last few days the Coffee Room has been busy with the Ezras Nashim story in Boro Park….but today, I got an email about another story.
Can anyone confirm or add any input?
Scary.
Due to the nature of it I was very hesitant to share this story with the public, but after a young woman was niftar this week, I decided that the time has come for me to speak up.
A while ago my sister was unfortunate to have a miscarriage. When she realized what’s happening she called her Doula for advice. She said that she’ll be over soon. Before long, she started bleeding very heavily and realized that this is a true emergency. Thinking that shes being frum she decided to call on Ezras Nashim for help.
A short while later a EN volunteer arrived. At that time she started to feel dizzy and had to lay down on the floor, while still bleeding heavy. Then another lady arrived. They both tried calming her down, my sister kept asking where the ambulance is? They kept on reassuring her that their ambulance is on its way and will be here momentarily. All this time they did not call for paramedics although fluids were clearly needed as she was bleeding out fast.
After 20 minutes or so the doula walked into the house. She could not believe her eyes, there My sister was laying, In a pool of blood, and two nice ladies each holding one hand were standing there helplessly (there was nothing more they could have done for her at this point besides transporting) at this point she was extremely pale, dizzy and weak. The doula also inquired right away where the ambulance was. When she was given the same answer that my sister was given 10 minutes earlier that they were waiting for a ambulance she took out her phone and called hatzola. Needless to say in under a minute a hatzola member was at the door, he right away realized the critical state she was in, he called in for Paramedics. In no time she had 2 paramedics at her side starting IV lines on both of her arms and forcing fluids in to keep the blood pressure from going even lower, and trying to raise it a bit. They quickly whisked her out, called the hospital ahead to notify that they are coming in with a critical patient. The doctor in the hospital later explained to her the grave condition she was in. Her blood pressure was less than 60. He was of the opinion that had it gone a little lower it would be at the point of going into shock where there is no return ר״ל. A Neighbor told me 911 pulled up a few minutes after Hatzolah left. All in all she needed a lot of blood and transfusions but BH she survived to tell the tale.
I want to be very clear that I am not here to bad mouth people. But my sister, like many people, naively believed that Ezras Nashim is the same exact as Hatzolah except in a womens version, –a real win-win situation.
The fact is however that in order to provide the care that we became used to, you need to have years of experience and a network that can be activated at a moments notice. Paramedics, ambulances, extra members in case of a heavy patient, connections with doctors etc.
What bothers me most is its unconscionable how EN advertises that they are highly trained….and mislead the public by giving the impression that they can handle emergencies???
Moreover, when the EN ladies realized that it was truly like threatening, why didn’t they then call Hatzlola??
To me this is Retzicha in its purest form.The only conclusion I can reach is that the founding motives for Ezras Nashim were not for the right reasons. It was not about savings lives. That’s why they failed my sister and failed the woman from yesterday. The only difference is my sister survived and the other woman tragically was niftar.
We as a community need to stop being so gullible, especially when it comes to life and death.
We as a community need to stop being so gullible and stop believing random stories posted on the internet swiped from chat groups.
I think it’s total bogus. who wrote that letter anyway?
doesn’t add up. and it’s a sad way to push an agenda, I don’t know the politics, thank Gd, but these women don’t deserve this.“We as a community need to stop being so gullible and stop believing random stories posted on the internet swiped from chat groups.”
+1!
thank you achdus for opening an account especially to share your fascinating, definitely true since it is online storyIt is true though that EN is not a parallel to Hatzalah. There are huge barriers to entry as an emergency response organization.
To paraphrase other people from other “discussions” on YWN.
It must be true, otherwise the moderators would not have let it through.
Unfortunately, this story did happen in BP, I was aware of this story at the time, the neighbors that witnessed this were aware of this, the EMTs and Paramedics from Hatzalah that treated this patient were aware of this.
I do not think that posting randoms stories as such is appropriate, if the author wants to really do what is right as they noted in their post, they should share their name. Otherwise, it seems as if there are people with an agenda just producing stories.
I don’t חס ושלום believe the story. Nevertheless, למיחש מיבעי, and until a responsible, credible review is published which affirms that the quality of care provided by EN is on par, I would have to rely on good old Hatzalah in case of emergency, ר”ל.
ה’ ישמרנו מכל צרה וצוקה
If this story is true, then they are a tremendous danger to our community and should be disbanded immediately.
lame
I also once had a miscarriage where I began to bleed heavily at home (after the doctor told me to wait and see what will happen.) My husband drove me to the emergency room, and the OB doctor there <B>immediately</B> delivered the fetus without normal anesthesia that would be done for a standard D&C. I still recall his words – we go to get that baby out of you (to stop the hemmorraging.) Surely EN should have been able to do that?
kollel_wife,
I’m so sorry to hear about your miscarriage and very scary experience. We had a miscarriage recently as well. Please may Hashem bless His people with healthy pregnancies and healthy babies.
Kollel wife -” I still recall his words – we go to get that baby out of you (to stop the hemmorraging.) Surely EN should have been able to do that?”
Surely you are very wrong! Taking a baby out of the womb, where it didn’t come out by itself, is called practicing medicine. In this country only a MD, DO, NP or PA can practice medicine. I’m not a Midwife, so I don’t even know if legally in your situation, they can remove the baby.
I’m sorry to counter your Motzay Shem Rah!
When someone is bleeding out like that they don’t need someone to come and hold there hand , when they call a first responder, they need someone who can try and stop the bleeding and transport them safely to the hospital so they can get the immediate care that they need!!
Achdus -“Needless to say in under a minute a hatzola member was at the door, he right away realized the critical state she was in, he called in for Paramedics. In no time she had 2 paramedics at her side starting IV lines on both of her arms and forcing fluids in to keep the blood pressure from going even lower, and trying to raise it a bit.”
The treatment in this case, Mr. Hatzolah, is immediate transport. If medics are available, they can start lines enroute to the hospital!
BTW, there is a difference between delivering a baby and “taking a baby out of the womb”.
Health- If indeed the patients systolic blood pressure was below 60 with no distal pulses, this patient is entering irreversible shock and might have multi-organ failure, so yes bilateral IVs would be a vital priority and lifesaving for a positive outcome. Even without MODS there is the concern of metabolic acidosis, lactate acidemia and renal dysfunction, all of this can be prevented/delayed with aggressive fluid resuscitation.
Besides, having IV access would mean that the patient can be taken into the operating room and the required procedure can be done without delay.
This is standard stuff.
2scents -“Health- If indeed the patients systolic blood pressure was below 60 with no distal pulses, this patient is entering irreversible shock and might have multi-organ failure, so yes bilateral IVs would be a vital priority and lifesaving for a positive outcome. Even without MODS there is the concern of metabolic acidosis, lactate acidemia and renal dysfunction, all of this can be prevented/delayed with aggressive fluid resuscitation.
Besides, having IV access would mean that the patient can be taken into the operating room and the required procedure can be done without delay.
This is standard stuff”What are you talking about? Are talking about pre-hospital care or ER care?
Standard care in this case, is rapid transport and shock care enroute!
Do you mean that your Hatzolah didn’t provide standard care?!?And btw, even though I understand your medical lingo, because I’m a medical professional, this is a public forum, write – that e/o else can understand!
Health –
a) I do not know what they did or did not do for that particular patient, I was just referring to what was written in the post. There is no point of delivering a patient that is beyond the point of saving when the patient could have been stabilized, so fluid resuscitation is a priority. If this should be done prior to transport or not depends on many details and dynamics of the situation.b) I did not use any lingo, just listed some of the devastating and fatal syndromes that may occur without aggressive fluid resuscitation.
c) Rapid transport is without question a high priority, yet there are scenarios in which transport should be delayed for a couple of minutes in order to stabilize the patient. What is also as important is early notification to the receiving facility and to the unit that will be receiving this patient so that the staff is all prepared.
d) Ambulances usually respond from a central or designated location, it also takes a couple of minutes to bring in the equipment needed from the ambulance to safely extract the patient. The Hatzalah EMTs and Paramedics have a grassroots response and are usually within close proximity of the call location, which normally means that initial basic and advanced care has been initiated before the ambulance is on location. So the patient gets treated prior to transport without any of the treatment delaying transport.
2scents -“Rapid transport is without question a high priority, yet there are scenarios in which transport should be delayed for a couple of minutes in order to stabilize the patient.”
The only one I’ve seen in a lot of EMS books, is when you’re involved in disentanglement (for e/o else – you can’t remove the pt. right away). In this case, it wasn’t presented that way!
From previous:
“Needless to say in under a minute a hatzola member was at the door, he right away realized the critical state she was in, he called in for Paramedics. In no time she had 2 paramedics at her side starting IV lines on both of her arms and forcing fluids in to keep the blood pressure from going even lower, and trying to raise it a bit. They quickly whisked her out, etc.”
The first priority is TRANSPORT. I’ll repeat my previous post:
“The treatment in this case, Mr. Hatzolah, is immediate transport. If medics are available, they can start lines enroute to the hospital!”2scents -” The Hatzalah EMTs and Paramedics have a grassroots response and are usually within close proximity of the call location, which normally means that initial basic and advanced care has been initiated before the ambulance is on location. So the patient gets treated prior to transport without any of the treatment delaying transport.”
That’s fine.
But I was posting on this particular case, and it wasn’t presented that way!
From previous:
“Needless to say in under a minute a hatzola member was at the door, he right away realized the critical state she was in, he called in for Paramedics. In no time she had 2 paramedics at her side starting IV lines on both of her arms and forcing fluids in to keep the blood pressure from going even lower, and trying to raise it a bit. They quickly whisked her out, etc.”Health – Not sure where it was stated that the ambulance was on scene prior to the paramedics, nothing that you have quoted seems to create that kind of timeline.
There are some instances in which resuscitation would be initiated on the scene, not just if transport was to be delayed for other reasons such as entrapment, this would be up to the providers to decide, the same is when the patient is presented to the ED, they would decide what if any intervention should be done for this patient before sending this patient to the unit that would care for the patient.
For example, if this were on the fourth floor with no elevator, would it be appropriate to delay transport for just two minutes to obtain access and begin fluid resuscitation if this patient indeed had a systolic pressure of 60? many would make the argument that it would be appropriate.
Once again, there is no indication from this article that transport was delayed at all.
2scents -“There are some instances in which resuscitation would be initiated on the scene, not just if transport was to be delayed for other reasons such as entrapment, this would be up to the providers to decide, the same is when the patient is presented to the ED, they would decide what if any intervention should be done for this patient before sending this patient to the unit that would care for the patient.”
I’m sure there are cases that are legitimate scenarios that transport can be delayed, but the case above Was Not presented that way!
I just get the feeling, that you’re just protecting your beloved Hatzolah.
Look this topic was started by a guy named “achdus”, let him/her present detailed information about the case, so everyone here can make an informed decision!
I got the feeling she could have been transported much earlier than she actually was!
Let him/her post transport time, when was the ambulance on the scene, when was it called for. And relate these times with regards to paramedic being called & their care.
And vitals that were taken on scene.2scents- you do know the chances of going into hypovolemic shock from a miscarriage are extremely low, right? I don’t buy this story for one minute. Especially these points: She says her sister called her doula for advice. Which woman has a doula before the third trimester?
If this was in the third trimester it would be a stillbirth, not a miscarriage. Also, for medical issues like this people generally call their doctor or midwife not their doula. A decent doula would have advised her to call her doctor, not say she’s coming over. A doctor would have given her guidance as to when to come into L&D. She also says her sister was so dizzy she felt she had to lay down on the floor. Really. The floor. There was no more comfortable place in her house? The dizziness was so so sudden that there was no option? Also, the supposed pool of blood on the floor. Any woman that knows she is having a miscarriage takes precautions not to leave a trail of blood on the floor wherever she’s walking. I’m sure that would have been the case here as well. And if she was going into shock as the story is told I’m sure EN would have been following shock protocol, not sitting and holding her hands.Health – your feelings are irrelevant, it is the facts that matter. So far there was nothing that would indicate that transport was delayed, I find it puzzling that you are bashing the personnel that handled that patient without even knowing if there were any wrong doings.
If indeed transport was delayed with no appropriate justification, your attacks would have been justified.Gamanit – Chances are not as low as you make it sound, the risk of postpartum exsanguination is high on the list. There are many other causes that can put an OB at risk for hypovolemic shock (HS), true that most of them would not present with a ‘puddle of blood’ but some would. That is why they have the OR near the or in the LD unit, for these types of emergent situations. Are you saying stuff like abruptios do not occur, they surely do and higher class abruptios are true life threatening emergency’s?
If this were a medical review there would have been a lot of questions and added details, was this a trauma patient that is in shock? is the miscarriage secondary to anything else that is going on?
Regarding the terms used, this does not appear to have been written by a doctor or a lawyer, seems more like street terms were used. To some lay people miscarriage/still born/spontaneous abortion are one and the same.
Your other points are all situational and your own assumptions.
I am also sure that EN would have followed protocol, I also believe that did follow protocol which was to dial 911, what else can they do for the patient?
2scents -“it is the facts that matter. So far there was nothing that would indicate that transport was delayed, I find it puzzling that you are bashing the personnel that handled that patient without even knowing if there were any wrong doings”
That’s correct! But go read my previous post – here it is again:
“Look this topic was started by a guy named “achdus”, let him/her present detailed information about the case, so everyone here can make an informed decision!
Let him/her post transport time, when was the ambulance on the scene, when was it called for. And relate these times with regards to paramedic being called & their care.
And vitals that were taken on scene.”Why are you quoting what you posted earlier, what relevancy does that have to the discussion at hand?
You were the one that decided on what was done and that it was inappropriate intervention, after being questioned you now decided that the details and documented times be provided to you, probably so that you can see if there were any wrong doings. Is there any reason that this should be provided to you?
2scents -“after being questioned you now decided that the details and documented times be provided to you, probably so that you can see if there were any wrong doings. Is there any reason that this should be provided to you?”
Because the OP had an agenda to besmirch EN, so I decided to see if your Hatzolah did a perfect job!
So before anyone takes the OP’s word for it, let’s see what kind of job Hatzolah did.
As a Macher on Hatzolah, you should be able to provide that info, quite easily!
Is there a reason that you won’t provide it, because you can leave out the private details?!?Health- very unprofessional for someone who claims to be a professional. This is noticeable by what you write, such as writing medical lingo, instead of calling it medical terminology and by your unsuccessful personal attacks instead of using contextual arguments.
Learned people with real positions do not go out of their way to defend their self made online persona, especially when no one is even challenging or cares about their proclaimed credentials and do not belittle other people that participate in the forum.
It would be greatly appreciated if you try to voice your opinion without degrading others that, just like yourself have a right to voice their own opinion. As a so called and self proclaimed ‘medical professional’ I am sure you would be able to comprehend this notion.
2scents -“Health- very unprofessional for someone who claims to be a professional”
Who are you to decide – unprofessional or not?
The only thing I believe you in – is that you’re part of Hatzolah. Why don’t you tell us your degree or level of training & how many years of experience that you have?” such as writing medical lingo, instead of calling it medical terminology”
And btw, I used lingo so everyone here can understand, not just some medical professionals, which obviously you don’t understand the audience that reads YWN!
Hi Health
Ive been follwoing along your conversation, since as you know you are my favorite poster.
I dont have much interest in getting involved in the main issue, since IVe already made my point (namely that people should have options, a point about which I believe we agree).I do have a question for you though, if you dont mind.
You clearly want to be taken seriously, since you spend a while responding (and on multiple threads)
So my question is, if you in fact want to have a real discussion why dont you treat it as such?
You claim to be a medical professional, why not be upfront what is it that you do (my guess is phlebotomy or maybe an US tech (if anything at all) but I really have no idea) And if you dont want people to know, (whcih of course is fine) why mention it at all?You clearly have some beef with hatzolah, (and it isnt that they didnt admit you) elaborate what is it, perhaps you are mistaken, or perhaps your opponents dotn know what you are reffering to. If you want ot be taken seriously make cogent arguments providing examples, back up your claims.
IF you dont want to be taken seriously, make it clearer so people know not to take your posts seriously since it seems not all posters are in on the joke.
and no there is no payment involved for posting on YWN, sorry in advance that isnt a thing.Health – I do not think I will respond to any of your posts if you continue to make it personal. For starters would you mind revealing what degree you have in medicine and in which area you practice? I know that you never revealed that despite many questioning your self-proclaimed ‘medical professional’ status. If you yourself mind on offering this information, then please do not ask others to do so, especially when I have never claimed to hold any training or that I even practice medicine. I tried to make my points without making the point that I am in medicine, for all I care think of me as a teenager hitting some buttons on a keyboard, but respond to the context of my posts.
You, on the other hand, use your online persona to validate your arguments. It would be reasonable to ask you to reveal your level of training and certification. If you do not want to reveal this information then fold your self-established personal of a ‘medical professional’ and start making some sense.
I respect everyone else’s opinion and I do not think that everyone else has to agree with what I wrote.
Health,
And btw, I used lingo so everyone here can understand, not just some medical professionals, which obviously you don’t understand the audience that reads YWN!
What do you mean? Every YWN poster is a medical professional. 🙂
So you’re Avram the MD?
Ubiq -“You claim to be a medical professional, why not be upfront what is it that you do (my guess is phlebotomy or maybe an US tech (if anything at all) but I really have no idea) And if you dont want people to know, (whcih of course is fine) why mention it at all?”
I’ll respond to this question in my next post to 2scents.
“You clearly have some beef with hatzolah, (and it isnt that they didnt admit you) elaborate what is it, perhaps you are mistaken, or perhaps your opponents dotn know what you are reffering to. If you want ot be taken seriously make cogent arguments providing examples, back up your claims.”
I didn’t want to post publicly that information. I’m not the type that goes on the internet, like YWN, and tries to besmirch them. While some so-called Frum people came here to Bashmutz EN.
I did go on You tube and punched in Ezras Noshim. One of the things that popped up is a video making fun of EN. That guy had a beard & Payos. Why do people like that think that they are religious Jews?
Back to your question – I did go to some Rabbonim, because it involved life & death, but nothing was done about my issue!2scents -“If you yourself mind on offering this information, then please do not ask others to do so, especially when I have never claimed to hold any training or that I even practice medicine.”
You have repeatedly either wrote that you’re on Hatzolah or support them.
So therefore you & them are open to public scrutiny! I’m not in the public eye.
When I ask a question about Hatzolah’s actions in a topic called ” ANOTHER Ezras Nashim Horror Story?”, the public has a right to be heard!
I asked – “Let him/her post transport time, when was the ambulance on the scene, when was it called for. And relate these times with regards to paramedic being called & their care.
And vitals that were taken on scene.”
Why doesn’t the public have the right to know that information?
It seems that Hatzolah is trying to hide something!I’m not familiar with medical privacy laws, but that might be considered sensitive information.
“I’m not in the public eye.”
You are claiming you are a medical professional and bashing an organization based on that. You want people to just believe you and not question you. On top of that you have the audacity to demand more info about them? That seems hypocritical.Why doesn’t the public have the right to know that information?
I would imagine it would be a violation of HIPPA/ patient’s right to privacy.Bk613 -“You are claiming you are a medical professional and bashing an organization based on that. You want people to just believe you and not question you.”
Do you even know what not in the public eye means? Did you finish high school?
Me claiming that I’m a medical professional has nothing to do with the OP. If you start a topic putting down EN, you had better defend your position!“On top of that you have the audacity to demand more info about them? That seems hypocritical.”
Like I previously posted – anybody can ask questions on Hatzolah’s care. They are in the public eye and are supported mainly by Jewish people! I’m a private individual.
You obviously don’t know the meaning of “hypocritical”!“Why doesn’t the public have the right to know that information?
I would imagine it would be a violation of HIPPA/ patient’s right to privacy”Are you a Hatzolah guy? It sure sounds like it. Refusing to give information about the call, that doesn’t include private information is not a violation of HIPPA.
It sure sounds like you’re trying very hard to manipulate the public!@health. No I’m not a “Hatzola guy” (although I do have several years of pre-hospital and emergency medicine experience) if you look back I actually agreed with you regarding EN, it’s when you started making ridiculous statements and refusing to substantiate them that I took issue.
You are a private individual that is slandering a very popular organization on a public forum so yes that does open you up to public scrutiny.Health, just wondering why you spelled it HIPPA instead of HIPAA, is that because you are discussing this with ‘non-professionals’?
GAMANIT – CHANCES ARE NOT AS LOW AS YOU MAKE IT SOUND, THE RISK OF POSTPARTUM EXSANGUINATION IS HIGH ON THE LIST. THERE ARE MANY OTHER CAUSES THAT CAN PUT AN OB AT RISK FOR HYPOVOLEMIC SHOCK (HS), TRUE THAT MOST OF THEM WOULD NOT PRESENT WITH A ‘PUDDLE OF BLOOD’ BUT SOME WOULD. THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE THE OR NEAR THE OR IN THE LD UNIT, FOR THESE TYPES OF EMERGENT SITUATIONS. ARE YOU SAYING STUFF LIKE ABRUPTIOS DO NOT OCCUR, THEY SURELY DO AND HIGHER CLASS ABRUPTIOS ARE TRUE LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCY’S?
I am pretty aware of the statistics. The chances of sudden hemorrhage with no prior indication such as heavy bleeding is close to nill. Woman are typically given guidance as to what is considered heavy enough bleeding to come into L&D. There is usually several hours from when bleeding would be considered heavy to when there is actually a life threatening issue.
IF THIS WERE A MEDICAL REVIEW THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND ADDED DETAILS, WAS THIS A TRAUMA PATIENT THAT IS IN SHOCK? IS THE MISCARRIAGE SECONDARY TO ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS GOING ON?
True. I’m talking about the story as it is told here.
REGARDING THE TERMS USED, THIS DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY A DOCTOR OR A LAWYER, SEEMS MORE LIKE STREET TERMS WERE USED. TO SOME LAY PEOPLE MISCARRIAGE/STILL BORN/SPONTANEOUS ABORTION ARE ONE AND THE SAME.
In my experience woman are more likely to use the term stillbirth in error when referring to a late miscarriage than use the word miscarriage (which gives a connotation that it’a not such a big deal) for a late term loss.
YOUR OTHER POINTS ARE ALL SITUATIONAL AND YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS.
Could be. So are yours.
I AM ALSO SURE THAT EN WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED PROTOCOL, I ALSO BELIEVE THAT DID FOLLOW PROTOCOL WHICH WAS TO DIAL 911, WHAT ELSE CAN THEY DO FOR THE PATIENT?
If you think shock protocol is to dial 911 then I don’t know how you passed your EMT course. You are supposed to place patient in shock position, give them a blanket, and closely monitor vitals. In NYC MAST trousers aren’t typically used but you’re supposed to carefully monitor vitals. Not sit there waiting for transport.
Bk613 -” (although I do have several years of pre-hospital and emergency medicine experience)”
This is very questionable! If you’re not a Hatzolah guy, then you’re a Hatzolah wannabe trying to score some points with them! Btw, I don’t believe a word you wrote, because any medical professional, even one that works in the pre-hospital environment, would know that the questions I asked, no way violated HIPPA!
“You are a private individual that is slandering a very popular organization on a public forum so yes that does open you up to public scrutiny”
That’s funny!😲 It’s like calling the kettle black. I came here to defend EN, not to attack Hatzolah. But the best defense is an offense. You yourself seem to know that very well by your posts to me.
Can you guys and gals take it offline?
Health- “But the best defense is an offense.”
Is that why you very frequently try to offend other posters in many ways, by attacking what they wrote or trying to attack them personally?Gamanit – What are the statistics that you are referring to? It would be nice if I can take a look at those numbers. To say that it is close to nill is very inaccurate, There are algorithms in place for this and these types of emergencies do occur. Not sure from where you take it that there need to be or these patients usually present with a prior indication. While some patients are at higher risk for abruptios and previas one does not need to have any prior indications to have an abruptio or significant post partum hemorrhage. In fact, every woman in the third trimester presenting with abdominal pain is considered to have an abruptio until proven otherwise.
I will ignore the personal attacks, It is irrelevant if I claim to even have any prehospital certification or not. Treating shock is beyond the EMT’s scope of practice. True, the EMTs can place the patient in shock position which might preserve the patients vital organs and even keep the patient warm, yet they cannot offer fluid replacement which is the first step in treating any hemorrhage or even transport to definitive care without an ambulance. Is that not so?
2scents -“Health, just wondering why you spelled it HIPPA instead of HIPAA, is that because you are discussing this with ‘non-professionals’?”
Another clown!
I was quoting bk 613:
” I would imagine it would be a violation of HIPPA/ patient’s right to privacy”2scents -“Treating shock is beyond the EMT’s scope of practice. True, the EMTs can place the patient in shock position which might preserve the patients vital organs and even keep the patient warm, yet they cannot offer fluid replacement which is the first step in treating any hemorrhage or even transport to definitive care without an ambulance. Is that not so?”
Stop with your hypocrisy!
From the OP -““Needless to say in under a minute a hatzola member was at the door, he right away realized the critical state she was in, he called in for Paramedics. In no time she had 2 paramedics at her side starting IV lines on both of her arms and forcing fluids in to keep the blood pressure from going even lower, and trying to raise it a bit. They quickly whisked her out, etc.””Why didn’t they do immediate TRANSPORT?!?
Health – Who were you quoting right here?
“Are you a Hatzolah guy? It sure sounds like it. Refusing to give information about the call, that doesn’t include private information is not a violation of HIPPA.
It sure sounds like you’re trying very hard to manipulate the public!”Once again you resort to name calling. This discussion has become very childish not what one would expect from a “medical professional”
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