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How much do you pay for shul membership? It appears that in chareidi shuls annual dues are typically in the form of seats being sold, generally in the ballpark of $150-200 per seat (and people often purchase additional seats for other members of their family who attend shul with the additional seats oftentimes being discounted). Whereas in modern orthodox shuls, rather than selling seats, members are billed annual membership fees, per family, in the ballpark of $1,500-$2,500 per year or 1%-2.5% of annual income. (Non-Orthodox synagogues seem to have a similar setup with annual dues.)
I’ve heard that the concept of selling seats originated in churches, where until in middle of the 20th century or so they rented pews annually to members. If so, would not copying this idea from the church be problematic?
Also, is it in fact the case that chareidi shuls charge so much less than mo shuls? What accounts for this discrepancy?
I Davened in a Chassidish Shteibel. There is annual dues of $400 including seats. Depending on the type of Shul, dues can be much higher depending on cost of operation and staff involved. Larger Orthodox Shuls, whether Yeshivish or MO, often charge more.
Charging for seats started on the lower east side during the high tire of immigration. Many people had stopped being religious but would come for the Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. They wouldn’t pay membership so selling seats was the major fundraising.
Larger shuls equals larger upkeep I would think.
Goq, sure, but per capita?
The place I davened this year on Yom Kippur doesn’t charge for seats, and doesn’t have annual dues.
But I’m not saying where it is, because I’m afraid popa’s gonna show up.
Why DY are they so big they have their own starbucks?
Yes, but not so so big that it’s a full service Starbucks.
My shul has a base amount per family, plus a small amount per child. My membership this year came out to about $1,200.
The membership doesn’t just cover seats. They have youth groups every Shabbos and Yom Tov during Shacharis, where the youth leaders teach the children parts of Shabbos davening and discuss the parshah with them, so the parents can daven without being disturbed. There are groups for the kids on Shabbos afternoon. There is a kiddush and Seudah Shlishi in shul every week. The membership dues cover the bills the shul has.
Our shule dues are ?1600, which includes two R”H/Y”K seats. Additional seats are more; there’s a discount for students and chayalim.
Lior why are so concerned with what other types of yidden do? do what you feel is best for you.
Our shul is around $400 per family annually.
$400 here too
Shuls have expenses, Buildings arent free to operate. Con Ed needs to get paid, Shuls need to be kept clean
The Rabbi needs to get paid, the building fund needs to be paid off, etc
The largest expense our shul has is payroll ( Rabbi, office secretary, caretaker,youth director ) and related expenses ( health insurance etc ) . $400 per family could not cover our non payroll costs as well as pay our Rav a living wage without having to work a second job. Our dues are $1200 which includes seats for Rosh Hashana
I’m a sheibel kiddush hopper who incurs no dues, just cholunt and kugel. I’ll ssk this Shabbos what the different shteibel’s duiesare.
When I lived in Brooklyn there were people who davened Kabalas Shabbos in our shul every week because it was nearby and they didn’t want to make the 20 minute walk to their “regular” shul. Since we weren’t the Shabbos morning shul, they felt no obligation to contribute any amount to the shul’s upkeep.
How much is the Rabbi paid?
I know a lot of rabbis who work second (or even third) jobs.
With his parsonage, between $130,000 and $150,000. Many Rabbis have to work second and third jobs because they can’t live on the shul salary
Obviously, a dedicated location for a minyan costs money. Whether it’s in some open field, a room in a commercial building, a residence or a dedicated synagogue, someone’s bearing the expense (ie: someone owns the field, even if it’s the tax-funded township).
The more numerous or fancier the amenities, the higher the costs. Expenses exceeding donations and fund-raising events must be covered somehow.
Membership dues is the most common and fair-minded approach to bridging any shortfall, usually adjusted by ability to pay.
If nobody pays, nobody prays (at least, not there).
This isn’t rocket science.
Not all MO shuls have staffs.
However MO shuls and Charedi shuls are generally set up different. In Charedi Shuls , the shul is the Rabbi’s. He owns the shul, He owns the property and raised his own money to build it. and can make the rules. He answers to nobody. Usually in MO shuls, they are run by a board of directors and the Shul is owned by a non-profit corproation that owns the shul and pays the Rabbi. The Rabbi answers to the board of directors and they can remove him if need be, they also gurantee his salary , that he will get what is promised .
ZD,
That is not at all true. It may be true of ??????, but is not at all an accurate description of “Chareidi” as a rule. Not even of the shuls in Brooklyn.
Most Charedi Shuls even if larger are still usually Shteibels. It might be set up as a Non-Profit Corporation, but its still owned by the Rav.
I knew of an unfortuante situation of a Shteibel that when the Rav died, his heirs had decided to sell off the building and get the money. The people who davened there were upset as they had paid the expenses for the shul (including the mortgage) and were now left high and dry with nothing to show for it.
ZD,
What you are positing as fact is actually a fallacy.
My rabbi is paid a FRACTION of what was posted here, and the $400 would cover the shul’s expenses if everyone would pay it in full at the beginning of the year, when they are supposed to. Our Y”N seats are separate. We also have people who daven by us, so my husband tells me, every single weekday, plus Friday night and Mincha/Maariv on Saturday. They rarely contribute anything to the Shul, but financially only seem to support the shuls they daven in on Shabbos morning. I think that’s wrong.
In my neck of the woods, the larger Chareidi shuls are Agudahs. They certainly don’t fit ZD’s model. The rabbis have other jobs in chinuch. I suspect the rabbi is the only person on the payroll (except maybe a part-time janitor).
If people regulatly daven in a different minyan every time they go to shul, then they should choose one place for the Y”N and get their seats there just for the yomim tovim. Otherwise, they should, IMO, contribute a proportionate amount to every place in which they daven regularly. Mispallelim have a chiyuv to give towards bedek habayis. So if you don’t take out a formal membership in every shul, (which would be bizarre),at least give a chelek of a reasonable membership fee as a donation to each shul, as hakoras hatov for them welcoming you there, even when you aren’t a paid up member.
Lior,
So MO shuls charge so much more because they pay their rabbi so much more than chareidi shuls and they have larger shul staffs?
Not sure you can pin it to MO vs. non-MO shuls, but your reasoning is basically correct. Different shuls have different needs or philosophies about what services a shul will provide to its community. A shul with the sole purpose of providing a small space for men to daven will have the lowest overhead costs. That setup is feasible in areas where a frum infrastructure is already well established. Other shuls require the full time participation of one or more rabbis and other staff to provide additional services that the community wants or needs, and they may have a larger or more expensive building.
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