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pba – I think it goes my way as it is the rabbis shul not yours. Please dont tell me you tell your rov how to lead his shul. cantoresq – Pack your bags, and find a new one.
so right
you’re not necessarily correct. (or so right (joke))
if a rav left and the board with no membership input hires a new rav, the members have no obligation to respect that rav or acknowledge him as their rav. they also don’t need to find a new shul.
i don’t know if this is the case here, but it’s not always so cut and dry.
this question like so many leaves many things unanswered.
how many guys are learning? what is the percent? is it a one time thing or do they do it every week? is it due to not caring what the rav has to say or are they pressed to finish mavra sedra?
are they giving a speech later or the next day that they have to prepare for, like daf yomi?
YES, you were wrong!
now let me read more than the heading.
Why doesn’t Rush Limbaugh chime in, too?
I love my rav, he is great and most people love listening to him, I’m a bad listener and with 100 people listening I dont think he minds me sitting in the back looking in a sefer. obviously if there is a small crowd then you are not going tolisten and not wave a sefer in his face.
obviously if there is a small crowd then you are not going tolisten and not wave a sefer in his face.
Sorry it should read “you are going to listen”
MyFried, it’s very slim pickins in my neck of the woods.
cantoresq, what about those who voted against you? Are they stlll in the shul? Do they still listen while you daven?
One more thing to remember. Whatever you do you role model for your children. So if you show a lack of kovod to your Rav you are teaching that to all the children in the room as well.
There aries goes again being all judgmental on others. (Now shes judging those who read in shul…)
myfriend, are you anyone else’s friend as well?
Yours too.
Shawn, I think it’s reasonable to assume that someone has read a topic before posting his opinion on it, don’t you?
Wolf, you’re not wrong at all. It’s simply chutzpah to take out a sefer and learn while the Rav is speaking. I don’t see how anyone can think it’s not.
Shawn Hannety – I respectfully disagree with you. If you cannot sit in a room where a rov is giving a shiur, without yawning, sleeping, or reading another sefer – leave the room. To do any of those things in his presence is extraordinarily chutzpahdig. Don’t blame a rov for boring you. Perhaps you should simply not stay for his lecture. I have listened to rabbonim speak who were not only boring, but not my cup of tea for other reasons. I would NEVER talk or read a sefer while they were speaking. My parents brought me up to have better manners than that.
As to being judgmental – we are ALL judgmental every single day. We have to be. Discerning, might be a better word, as judgmental seems to have a negative connotation. The main idea is not to be so sure we are the ONLY ones who have a clue, that we discount anyone else’s view. The only view that I as a frum Yid would discount, is one which tells me it’s ok to be mechallel Shabbos, eat treif, not go to the mikveh, not have my sons gemalehd, and so on. Otherwise, all observance that conforms to basic Judaism and its guidelines, is good. I may choose to observe something more strictly than you or less strictly, but if I am meeting the minimum standards, then you should refrain from comment, even if you want to be more machmir on yourself. Only Hashem gets to judge us after 120 years.
Firstly, I agree that it definitely is disrespesctful as most of us here…so maybe we should try to find a solution how to fix it, and not be busy with pointless arguments.
And Wolf- don’t be so self critical of yourself you are not as stupid as you make yourself to be- i mean someone that is obviously an exceptional photographer can’t be THAT dumb…:)
Wolf, am I the only one here who thinks that when you write disparagingly about yourself, that you are simply messing with us with a touch of wry wit?
OP, you are no lower than them. YOU have the sensitivity and the middos they lack. Derech erext kadma ltorah is basically a dead idea in some places, and for Azus Ponim like this WE TOSS KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL because rotten middos are contagious!
If you read a sefer while the Rav is speaking you are saying, I could care less what you have to say and I would rather be anywhere else, but here listening to you. If you open a sefer during davening you are saying the same thing to hashem as well.
Does anyone else here think that “Shawn Hannety” & “Michael Savage” is “Moshe Rose”?
(Based on the name calling, strange stance on issues & superb spelling and grammar)
WIY, It also bothers me when my “super masmidim” family members do it at family sheva brachos and at the shabbos table.
For some people, the family should appreciate just on what they came, and in General how can you know how hard for him it was Today to celebrate in any kind of… He came to take part of ‘families S’imcha etc.!?
hannety, have you ever heard of derech eretz kadmo latorah? if you have may your opinions would be different
Wow! I would never have thought that this could actually be a discussion. There is no way to justify learning a sefer during the Rav’s speach (ESPECIALLY IF HE IS WITHIN EYESIGHT)! If a person feels he is not going to gain anything, Torah-wise, by listening he should listen anyways and thus gain tremendously in the realm of middos.
lechatchilah
“Wow! I would never have thought that this could actually be a discussion. There is no way to justify learning a sefer during the Rav’s speach (ESPECIALLY IF HE IS WITHIN EYESIGHT)! If a person feels he is not going to gain anything, Torah-wise, by listening he should listen anyways and thus gain tremendously in the realm of middos.”
Very well said!
Sacrilege, it did cross my mind. I think all three are one. (Uh oh. What does that sound like?)
“Uh oh. What does that sound like?”
Someone who needs to get a life.
The people who don’t think this is rude, probably also text like mad on their cell phones while someone is in the middle of talking to them at that moment.
Didn’t we try to cover these type of things before with the “lack of RESPECT” thread and the “what happened to Derech Eretz” thread?
Do you know the worst thing about all those people who don’t know this is rude and “W”rong? Do you remember as kids when we did something wrong the question always rang out “where were you brought up, in a barn?” (well some of you will remember) Your rudeness and attitude, also known as lack of respect for others, will always, let me emphasize ALWAYS reflect back to your parents and teachers.
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