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The current job market is that unless you have respectable grades in a leading law school (Columbia, NYU, Georgetown, or better), or really outstanding grades elsewhere – your chance of getting a job out of law school is poor. You’ll end up either taking a non-law job to support yourself, or being in a “build up the practice mode” meaning nominal pay or no pay. If you ran up large debts in getting the degrees, you may have a serious problem. Large firms are laying off partners and associates
If your goal is to be a neighborhood lawyer, and you are sufficently entreprenurial to build up a practice, the grades don’t matter (but learned skills do), and having gone to a fancy law school doesn’t matter much. But you’ll hardly be affluent until and unless you build up your practice.
Jewishfeminist,
I think Veltz is painting a darker picture than the reality (especially if one is flexible about where they live), although I am sure he is doing so with the best of intentions.
If your husband finds Veltz’s advice too depressing, he can contact me (get my info from Veltz) for a slightly rosier outlook.
YWN is not set up for private messages, so I’m not sure how either of you expects me to get in touch. However, my husband goes to a T-14 school, so I am not worried about his prospects. He has a total of 24 interviews scheduled over the next few weeks for OCI.
Public interest jobs are more accessible, and more lucrative, than is popularly believed, ESPECIALLY with geographic flexibility. If you’re stuck in a New York centric mentality, you’re going to have issues. Don’t limit yourself.
How much does a frum family need to survive? rebdoniel’s suggestion of $200K was lambasted on another thread. So if we believe it is less than $200K, the question is how much less. Public interest lawyers start at $50K or $60K, but can get up to $120K or $150K before the ten-year mark. And that’s assuming the wife is not working at all. Sounds like enough to me.
Benignuman: I wouldn’t mind hearing about your rosier outlook. I personally find the job market to be pretty lousy, despite being in a good school with excellent grades.
Squeak,
I said, “I know three partners at one of the top two firms.” Somehow you seem to have added, in your mind that I know only three lawyers which enables you to employ the typical Coffee Room snarkiness and declare, “Sounds like you barely know anyone.”
You are mistaken. In the course of my legal career, I have met many, many colleagues and I am coinfident the total number probably has four digits.
I repeat my advice to the OP: try to find some real live attorneys from whom to seek advice, not the people here who view this all as a big joke.
Wait a second, does everyone on this board know each other IRL, except for me?
I agree with veltz, except that I think the biglawlers will pretty much do ok wehn they leave biglaw
Borough Park Mensch,
I think the bulk of the people answering here are either in law school or are lawyers.
Ender,
I would be happy to talk to you if you can find some way to contact me.
Talking to real lawyers if overrated. They charge money.
Mods, can you email me benignuman’s email address?
jewishfeminist-
my husband goes to a T-14 school, so I am not worried about his prospects
What has better prospects,
1) Graduating as valedictorian at a not-so-good, local law school
2) Graduating middle-third at a semi-prestigious law school
3) Graduating bottom-bottom at a top tier?
Also besides for the competition, are the T-14 really harder material> don’t all law schools basically offer the same classes and exams?
Borough Park Mensch-
in your mind that I know only three lawyers which enables you to employ the typical Coffee Room snarkiness and declare, “Sounds like you barely know anyone.”
I couldn’t be sure, but at the time I thought squeak was joking.
I was cheppering him, but it was well deserved based on his past behavior here (and now current).
“What has better prospects,
1) Graduating as valedictorian at a not-so-good, local law school
2) Graduating middle-third at a semi-prestigious law school
3) Graduating bottom-bottom at a top tier?”
The question is irrelevant. My husband goes to a top tier law school and is far from “bottom-bottom”. Plus, while top of the class at a not so great law school might get you a job straight out of school, it’s not as good long term as you might think. Law school name recognition follows you around for your entire career. When you are looking to switch firms at the age of fifty they will want to know what law school you attended. It’s actually a big deal.
“Also besides for the competition, are the T-14 really harder material> don’t all law schools basically offer the same classes and exams?”
Same classes, yes. But the style of teaching is different and the faculty are more prestigious. My husband has already been taught by a number of professors who wrote the textbooks he is using, giants in their field. It makes a difference.
What has better prospects,
1) Graduating as valedictorian at a not-so-good, local law school
2) Graduating middle-third at a semi-prestigious law school
3) Graduating bottom-bottom at a top tier?
Assuming your first choice is a Tier 4 school, I think I’d rather be the third choice.
popa, why does the 3rd choice have better prospects.
are you saying grades don’t matter?
I’m saying school matters. But then, I’m not smart enough for law school anyway. I certainly never plan on going. They wouldn’t even accept me. I don’t think I could get into even a bottom school.
popa,
If I’d have a law school I’d accept you!
Popa, even if you could get into law school, you would never pass the Character & Fitness part of the bar.
I’m sure I could if I studied. I have a friend who knew nothing about law and then one day he studied for the LSAT for like a month and he passed and got into law school. And not a state school like Penn–he got into Touro!
Oh, BTW Popa, I thought you were going to find a job and make lots of money. How has that been working out?
Thanks for asking. I decided the commute is too long.
But you could learn on the bus, Popa! I had a friend who got a heter to do that!
I don’t like to rely on heterim.
Besides, yehudi yakar, if you come on the bus to learn, where do you go to get to work!? (Or to play candy crush or angry birds)
Shul? The mikva?
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