Alternative Communities in New Jersey?

Try the beautiful community of Passaic

1 – How do you define boring?

1 – They’re all BTs? In what sense are they all the same?

What type, 1?

Edison/Highland Park has several shuls ranging from Modern Orthodox to Agudah, plus a kollel. It’s a diverse community that prides itself on achdus and a “live and let live” approach that works well for some people. There are schools and amenities in town or close by. Geographically E/HP is in the center of NJ and close to NJ Transit and all major highways, although traffic on the local roads can be challenging (like almost everyplace else in NJ). While E/HP is located only 45 minutes from Brooklyn, housing is a fraction of the cost, and there are many homes on the market at any given time. I have often wondered why E/HP is not more “on the radar” for families that are looking for an out-of-town lifestyle.

I have been told by people in Edison/HP that tuition is a “holly fortune” and that there is no pity on someone who “chooses” to live there (in other words, someone who’s originally from there may get breaks etc as they look at them as moving there sort of “out of necessity” whereas s/o choosing to live there must contend with extremely high tuition, at least in comparison to Lakewood). I think this is something to strongly take into consideration. Having said that; I think HP/Edison is a really beautiful community. I used to do business there and gaff the opportunity to see it in person for a few years.

“Elizabeth, Teaneck, Hillside and Linden are, if I’m not mistaken, MO. Which isn’t what the OP is looking for.”

Actually, that’s exactly what hes looking for. Without the pejorative connotation of “MO” of course. I’ve visited all these neighborhoods while looking for a place to live, and wound up in one of them. And I am pretty much observantly in line with what the OP wrote. These beauty I found in each of those communities was that you have the ability to be pretty much whatever you want to be on the spectrum of observance, and no one really judged you for it. Cholov stam? Sure. Black hat? Sure. Movies? Whatever…. it was a machayah I tell you, to meet people like that.

“Everyone there is the same type.”
This is so inaccurate! There is actually a very inclusive mix of all types of people across the observant spectrum.
Are there a number of BTs? Sure. Because the Passaic/Clifton communities as a whole are non-judgemental and anyone can feel comfortable living there. Don’t take my word for it. Check it out for yourself, in person. Not based on posts.

Teaneck is not more expensive than Brooklyn.

Neville: From the perspective of a kosher keeping, tuition paying Orthodox Jew, Teaneck is much more expensive.

Especially especially tuition. But housing too.

My Brother-in-law has been living in Edison/Highland park for close to 20 years. I would suggest you try to contact either Rabbi Drucker of the Aguda of edison/highland park or Rabbi Luban of Cong. Ohr Torah.

How about Toms River or Jackson? There’s no perfect place to live. Colored shirts are not a good enough reason to put your family through the difficulty of resettling somewhere else. The “pressure ” in Lakewood may be influencing you & your family in a positive way without you realizing. There guys just like you in Lakewood who figure out how to find a nice group. Wearing a white shirt is a small sacrifice for all that Lakewood offers.

Before you look at communities, look at the yeshivas that you would send your children to. Once you find yeshivas you like, check out their tuition/dinner costs. Out of Lakewood, the numbers may/will shock you. They give very little in tuition breaks, because they spend alot more money on your child’s education than the yeshivas in Lakewood can because of lower tuition.

THEN, look for housing. You may be able to afford a house in a certain area, but not be able to afford tuition or visa versa.

One needs to factor in total costs; housing, tuition, taxes, commuting costs, etc.

Wishing you much hatzlacha in your search.

Joseph, are we reading the same post??

“I’m a former yeshiva guy, and have been working for several years. I would be considered more ‘balebatish’ by most people. For example, I would technically wear clothes other than black pants and white shirts, go to movies occasionally, let my kids watch movies”

Those towns are EXACTLY what he is looking for. (While Teaneck proper IS expensive, its surrounding neighbors in the “Teaneck community” are not).

As for this statement “Teaneck and the other towns in that comment are thorough and through MO, something the OP isn’t seeking”

Thats through and through wrong. You clearly havent spent any significant amount of time in these areas. And again with the throwing out of “MO” as a pejorative.
yoyo, spend a shabbos in the towns I listed, you wont be disappointed and youll meet some really great people.

Am I the only one who was struck by the term “Alternative Communities” ? Clearly not looking for a Yeshivish place. Sounds like this was posted by Mike Moskowitz.

… or if you eat at non-certified vegetarian or non-meat restaurants.

Joe -“non-meat restaurants”

Eating in places like that is Not MO! That’s Frei. But I’m sure you know this.

NCB, the fact that that’s true doesn’t change the metzius that the Modern Orthodox who do keep halacha (kashrus, not watching movies, covering hair, etc.) take offense at being lumped together.

some of what we consider conservative consider themselves MO

“Eating in places like that is Not MO! That’s Frei. But I’m sure you know this.”

Doesn’t change the metzius that people call themselves “Modern Orthodox” and then go ahead and do it.

I’ve got news for you. People calling themselves “chareidi” and “chassidish” or “yeshivish” also go ahead and do it. People calling themselves “modern orthodox” or “charedi” or whatever also do far worse things that you will hopefully never find out about. What people call themselves, and even what people truly are, doesn’t always match up with what yetzer horas they have and how they fail in dealing with them. כל הגדול מחברו…

Milhouse: What’s your point within the context of this thread? The OP explicitly said he isn’t looking for an MO community. Saying stuff to the likes of “but, these specific MO communities are so great!” or “but, there are people who call themselves Chareidi and do bad stuff” doesn’t add anything to the discussion.

Other than being pointless, your comparison is bad for the reasons Joseph stated. The MO and MO communities cause otherwise religious people to find ways to violate the halachah and have it accepted by those around them. At least the Conservative/Reform movements basically just serve as a vessel for non-religious people to meet, since their congregants probably wouldn’t be frum otherwise. The MO is actually directly causing frum people to be less religious. Before you try a strawman and say “are you actually saying that the MO does more damage than the Conservative/Reform movements,” let me save you some time: yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying and I’ve always said it openly here.

Anywho, back to the actually topic.
Yoyo: it sounded like Aberdeen was less than an hour from Lakewood, so couldn’t you just send you kids to school in Lakewood?

OP, I think Edison/HP is what you’re looking for and I know there are many people that are like you that live there. I’m not sure if the tuition is that much different compared to Passaic, but I would imagine it’s more than Lakewood.

Yoyo,

Please see comment above from “Haimy”.

He/she is 1000% right. I will tell you one thing- before making any decisions; think about it good and hard. Then stop and think about it again. Then visit the place you’re considering. And visit again and again. I say this from experience because I moved myself and my family to an “out of town” community and 100% regret it. I wish I could move back. It was NOT the “pressures” of Lakewood that made me move, although I do think I felt a big sense of relief when I did move. However; once settled in OOT, I will tell you I would love to move right back to Lakewood. It is not easy though once you uproot your family. Lakewood is a beautiful place, a place that has so much to offer, for everyone, definitely for someone with the background you describe. From your description; I am somewhat like you, possibly a little more to the right, but definitely on similar wavelengths. Don’t run from Lakewood; you may regret it very much at a later time. Again- I am talking from personal experience. Believe it or not; you may actually miss alot of the frum aspects of lakewood when you leave it behind. And I am NOT referring to the eateries etc, I am specifically referring to the fact that it is a “frum haven” with all the garbage and stupidity that comes along with it. It is FAR from perfect, there may indeed be better places for you, I do not know you outside of this feed. I urge you to study this well before making any quick moves. This may sound retarded but I would tell you; if you do decide to move- first rent a small apt in the community. Stay there yourself during the week, maybe even take your family for shabbosim. That is the best way to ensure you really get a good feel for the place. Then if you really want to move, go ahead! Hatzlocha!

I want to add Staten Island to your list. While it is not in NJ, it is immediately across the Outerbridge, Bayonne Bridge and Goethols Bridge from 3 entry points to “Central NJ”. I the largest Jewish community there (Willowbrook) is located directly adjacent to the Staten Island Expressway, and is a 5-10 minute drive from Bayonne, Linden, and Elizabeth NJ.

As for the other concerns….

Staten Island is a highly diverse “out of town type” community within NYC. There are Chasiddish, Yeshivish, MO, and other kinds of Jews all living together , often davening together, and working on various community events and chesed projects together. There are two main elementary schools locally, RJJ (which has a seperate boys division, girls division, and preschool) and well as JFS which is a co-ed school. JFS and RJJ Girls, share a campus although they are completely separate from each other. There is a Chofetz Chaim HS and countless ES and HS options just over the bridges with busing in Elizabeth, Brooklyn, and West Orange Mainly (people also send to Teaneck and Passaic among other places for HS) (more info on Staten Island Schools here https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/uncategorized/1658207/staten-island-offers-multiple-school-options-for-the-jewish-community.html).

In terms of affordability, the initial cost of housing is higher than many places in NJ but cheaper than most of NY. The trade off is that property taxes are much lower than NJ. Also the cost of schooling, shul memberships, and general life styles are also cheaper in Staten Island as the lifestyle is a more laid back one with less emphasis on money. My wife and I moved there 5 years ago due to circumstance, thinking that it would be a stop on our way to elsewhere but we have fallen in love with the community.