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Klal Yisrael has suffered several devastating blows this past month. Two of them were perpetrated from the inside. Our pain in palpable. It’s quite clear that we cannot go into Shabbos now as usual. We MUST improve. NOW, without further delay. ESPECIALLY bain adam l’chavero.
Could we all pledge here (not money, don’t worry…) something that we will do this Shabbos that we may not have ordinarily done?
-Saying “good Shabbos” to an unpopular member, or smiling or acknowledging him/her
-Delaying speaking until after davening (especially refraining during kaddish). Please let your “neighbors” in shul in on it and you’ll be the catalyst for their schar as well.
Please enter your pledge below as to what you will be taking upon yourself this Shabbos.
Let us know afterwards, if you’d like, if others joined you in this project as well.
Thanking you ALL in advance.
-Delaying speaking until after davening (especially refraining during kaddish). Please let your “neighbors” in shul in on it and you’ll be the catalyst for their schar as well.
I was not aware that there was an inyan to refrain from talking before davening. Yet another group of sins I need to atone for. I did not know that I should be waking my children on Shabbos morning for shul wordlessly. 🙁
The Wolf
I believe that NOT speaking during Davening is a huge big deal. Tefilos to Hashem should be made with the utmost respect and kavonah. Walking into a makom kadosh like a shul should make someone have a shift in thinking and in behavior. There IS a difference between one’s living room and one’s shul and it is very important that we recognize that and show it.
Sounds like a great idea! I think I am going to work really hard on not getting in a fight with my sister. This is really hard for me, especially with my situation… but I am really going to try my hardest to do that, B’N.
How about to bli neder (bli shevuoh?) be ready for Shabbos five minutes earlier than you need to?
I’m all for the not talking during davening! What I wrote above is just another suggestion.
Ideally, if you can, don’t talk at all, even between aliyos. Just smile and nod. After a while, it gets easier.
A Machsom L’fi is an excellent idea.
I heard a shiur by Rabbi Zev Smith. If I understood correctly, it’s certainly a good idea to avoid speaking about really unnecessary things on Shabbos. Try, for half an hour, to avoid frivolous, meaningless conversation – and enhance your Shabbos.
Delay speaking during davening. Hope this is more clear. And it means to someone other than Hashem and sichas chol.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Now I just have to deal with my talking during laining; a practice which I cannot stop. 🙁
The Wolf
Wolf–
Offer to lain during the talking, maybe that will help. 🙂
There are so many areas in which I must improve it’s difficult to pick just one. But b’n tomorrow I’ll try have my Shabbos preparations done, if not by chatzos, before the kids get home.
To do the 5 year plan before getting annoyed…basically if something upsetting happens you say will this matter in 5 min, 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 moths, 5 years and if the answer to any of those is no then don’t blow up about it. Wish me luck!!!!!!
The kuntz is to do not what’s easy, but what’s appropriate. Ask yourself: Did these gruesome tzoros happen because we did/didn’t do X until now, or am I undertaking X because it’s easiest for me?
The world needs more people like you 🙂 I wish for the world to be light , to be love . Yet I must face the fact that I live in the dark, that we are amidst the deep night.
So lets be the shining star .Let our love spread across the Heavens , giving to everything in its path.
This Shobz in the USA,may we celebrate the next in Gods Holy City, I will try to love everyone for the mere fact that they are creations of Our Father. I will try to accept everyone unconditionally , with no judgement. I will try to bring some love to the world. I WILL be a star.I WILL shine .
Will YOU be a shining star tonight ? Or will you add to the darkness? The choice is in your startosphere .
YES, YOU CAN!!!!!!
No, I cannot.
The Wolf
In addition to the above, I am aiming to say the whole Tehillim in 1 shot.
Why? Does saying Tehillim all at once have any more value than saying it in multiple stages?
The Wolf
Rabbi Wolf is the baal korei, but he likes to rankle everyone’s chain by talking about how he can’t stop talking during leining. (And I like to rankle his chain by calling him Rabbi 🙂
Can you take the English translation that has commentaries on the bottom and read it while the person lains?
No, I cannot do that either.
By the way, it would probably be a great lesson to your kids seeing how you makes positive changes in your life to do what is the correct, albeit more difficult, behavior.
You are correct in this. Sadly, my kids see my sinful behavior (of talking through laining) week in and week out. But since I can’t stop, I don’t see any way to change the situation.
The Wolf
Rabbi Wolf is the baal korei, but he likes to rankle everyone’s chain by talking about how he can’t stop talking during leining. (And I like to rankle his chain by calling him Rabbi 🙂
The difference is that when I say that I talk during laining, while perhaps misleading, I’m speaking the truth. Calling me “rabbi,” on the other hand, is an outright lie.
The Wolf
If I call you Mr. Obama it may be misleading but it doesn’t constitute a “lie” to address you as such. Same with referring to you with an incorrect title; it is no more misleading than you bemoaning your “talking during leining”.
If I call you Mr. Obama it may be misleading but it doesn’t constitute a “lie” to address you as such.
Fair enough. Lie is the wrong word to use. But so is misleading. The correct word to use is “incorrect.” I am not Mr. Obama — and I am not a Rabbi. Stating that I am Mr. Obama or a rabbi is simply incorrect.
My words, on the other hand, while possibly misleading, are correct.
The Wolf
Wolf,
You totally got me. I’m still wondering why you would want people to assume that your misleading statement meant what it sounded like.
Wolf:
“a practice which I cannot stop.”
IMHO, the only reason you cannot stop talking during laining is because you have decided that you can’t, and therefore you won’t bother trying.
IMHO, the only reason you cannot stop talking during laining is because you have decided that you can’t, and therefore you won’t bother trying.
Good point. Wolf: why don’t you quit the laining job?
IMHO, the only reason you cannot stop talking during laining is because you have decided that you can’t, and therefore you won’t bother trying.
Alas, in this case, you are correct. I have not made a serious attempt at refraining from talking during laining. Furthermore, sadly, I have no intention of making a serious attempt.
All this is just further proof of the fact that I am severely deficient in my Jewish practice.
The Wolf
Good point. Wolf: why don’t you quit the laining job?
Because I enjoy it. Perhaps I can (charitably) be called a mumar l’tayavon rather than a mumar l’hachis.
The Wolf
Wolf:
“Furthermore, sadly, I have no intention of making a serious attempt.”
Why not? If you yourself admit that the only reason you “can’t” stop talking during laining is because you aren’t trying, and you seriously believe that talking during laining is a problem that you would like to fix (as is evident from other posts you’ve written), why don’t you just try?
Why not? If you yourself admit that the only reason you “can’t” stop talking during laining is because you aren’t trying, and you seriously believe that talking during laining is a problem that you would like to fix (as is evident from other posts you’ve written), why don’t you just try?
I guess I don’t just want to hard enough. Consider it a character failing on my part.
The Wolf
AYC- I did it!! It was hard but now I see that it is possible to hold back and control. I really hope to continue this and eventually we can all bring Moshiach bimhayra biyamaynu. Thanks for the idea
Wolf, I gurantee you that if you will break your bad habit of inappropriate behavior during services,
u will much success.
Just try one weekday mincha minyan.
No talking and I mean zero, from beginning to end.
Just try one weekday mincha minyan.
No talking and I mean zero, from beginning to end.
That’s not an issue for me. On the contrary, I’m *very* scrupulous when it comes to talking during davening. It’s talking during laining where I fail. From the moment the reader starts reading until the moment he finishes, I talk constantly.
The Wolf
Why don’t you try davening in a different shul and see if that helps?
Why don’t you try davening in a different shul and see if that helps?
It’s not the davening that’s the problem.
In Israel, we call conversations such as this one “sichat chershim” (deaf men’s conversation).
In honor of this thread I made sure to say “good Shabbos” to all the girls I passed in the street over Shabbos.
Wolf, look in the Biur Halocho in Hilchos Krias Hatorah.
Believe me, u will never talk again!
“Why don’t you try davening in a different shul and see if that helps?”
I see that logic, Wolf. If you are not familiar with the congregates, then you are much less likely to strike up a conversation with one of these total strangers during leining.
Wolf, look in the Biur Halocho in Hilchos Krias Hatorah.
Believe me, u will never talk again!
Yes, he will! (If you read this thread again, you’ll understand why.)
HaQer: Are you a girl, also?
Wolf, look in the Biur Halocho in Hilchos Krias Hatorah.
Believe me, u will never talk again!
Perhaps you can point me to the relevant portion. I checked the Beiur Halacha for OC 146 and did not see anything that would have led me to “Believe me, u will never talk again!”
Please advise where I can find the portion you are referring to.
Thanks,
The Wolf
Wolf – Did you ever hear once a joke -twice a dope? These posters obviously don’t read all the posts before posting, but why must you keep leading them on like this? Enough already, get your kicks by doing something else!
Wow, weird that I randomly was looking at my past posts and clicked on this one…. Hashgacha I guess.
I really appreciate your concerns, how selfless of you. I admire you for that and for many other things. I don’t even know where I left off but it got to a point where I just couldn’t handle it… again.. It’s hard for anyone to understand without being me in my situation but she really brings out the worst in me. Recently I have just tried staying at a distance and being fake close. I love her and I love my family and us all being together, and I wouldn’t trade it for the world, but at the same time it is a really bad environment for me but I try and ignore that part..
I really rarely fight in general but sometimes (only with her) I explode. I am happy you thought of it while saying tehilim- hopefully it gave Hashem an idea to help me..
I need some chizuk and rereading this thread is giving me some. So thank you again!
yid4life – I admire you for trying to work on this. I have a sibling that I have a really hard time with, I can’t stand them sometimes. And it’s been going on for a while. I’ve given up having a relationship with her (besides for the little that we need to have being siblings and all).
But after I read your post, I’m going to try to be like you and work on me when I’m around her.
I wish you the best of luck because I know that it’s really hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for inspiring me (I hope it lasts now)
Sister Bear- I wish you luck as well! I hope you keep us updated and give me chizuk to continue and show me it is possible to get better!!
Don’t know if I said this before or not, but what’s really hard for me is that everything I do to try and be nice and talk to her and be close to her, she takes everything I say to be negative and going against her, so I get very upset about that and just want to give up on talking and being nice at all..
AYC – I’ve tried just ignoring it and continuing being nice and sweet, but it doesn’t seem to work and it is starting to offend me and hurt me inside because everything she says always puts me down.. I agree that I am in this situation for a reason and I should be working on something…… but what?
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