Alabama’s largest hospital says it is halting IVF treatments

America is a secular country? It was never secular, and as far back on the scale that you go the more it’s difficult to make the assertion. the only “secular” aspect of America are from the leftist pro-hamas protestors. That’s the scale.

In 2022, the United States had a maternal mortality rate of approximately 24 deaths per 100,000 live births That same year, Alabama had a maternal mortality rate of approximately 37 deaths per 100,000 live births ….more than 50% higher than the national average. These vile excuses for legislators and judges who enact and adjudicate these laws obviously have a higher regard for protecting some frozen embryos than real women whose health care ranks 48 out of the 50 on just about all relevant metrics.

Last time i checked the countries that did the most harm to judaism and jews were germany and the soviet union, both extremely secular….i guess supporting heresy and toeva because “maybe” they’ll go after jews isn’t how history works… because our job is to singularly pursue kovod shomayim without cheshbonos. Come what may.

jackk, that’s fantasy, there’s nothing secular about the united states, from its founding, to its laws, to its culture. What the leftist tell you about a so-called “separation” is misdefined by uneducated masses.
But you are telling me that Mexico is secular, which has a flag where the colors signify the “purity” of roman catholic church. Or France, whom I’ve always heard follows a catholic calendar? What’s next, Qatar?

Wrong about Germany. Then and now, churches receive government funding. One thing Hitler had to do was to assume effective control over religious institutions and the funding was a lever he used to achieve that.

Under the Alabama Court decision, IVF would be financially prohibitive if a woman had to pay for “perpetual storage” for any embryos that were not successfully implanted since destruction of a frozen embryo could be deemed as homicide. Likewise, a lab tech who accidentally dropped the container holding the embryo or who shut off the power supply to the cryogenic storage chamber would also be subject to an involuntary manslaughter charge.

Jack, no one banned ivf – that’s twisting the situation. A hospital acted out of fear.

Promoting policies which prohibit abortions definitely increases kovod shomayim. Turning a blind eye or even, chas veshalom, supporting the abortionists, is a massive chilul Hashem.

And yes, religious countries were bad to us too. Everyone has been bad to us. But the ones who killed 6 million – more than all of the pogroms put together – and the ones who shmadded millions of jews in Russia, were secularists. That needs to be stressed.

Jack, you’re repeating the same statement about separation pf church and state. It is not in the constitution or the 1st amendment. It’s sole mention in old American literature was in a letter. In recent decades, an increasingly secular culture and judiciary have applied it so much that most people assume it’s a constitutional principle. It isn’t, and the founding fathers did not have the image of a government devoid of religious concepts and morals.

Before repeating yourself again, do a quick google search.

My point about germany and the soviet union is to answer your concerns that “if we let the religious people spread their religion they’ll go after us.” It’s not just religious people that go after us, but secularists too; we are historically more likely to be targeted by secular abortionists than we are conservative Christian republicans. Secularists both on the left (soviet union) and on the right (the nazis) were worse to us than all of roman catholic christiandom.

The government in no way limited ivf; that’s a hospital’s decision. Why are you sounding the alarm on ivf and ignoring the death of millions of babies?

The Rav Baal Akedah interprets lo yihyeh lecha on money which he considers currently the greatest a’z.

Jefferson used the expression to build a wall for separation of church and state to explain the first amendment.

There is freedom of religion but not freedom from religion.

This argument whether original us position on religion and state rights or the current one is better is not a legal argument. US constitution consists of a combination of original rules AND means to change it
These rules were followed most of the time
So both are valid – as well as current Alabama legislation. If you don’t like it, move to Mississippi

Bottom line, people like Jakkk, who label people fascists because they believe in the sanctity of life. They are more supportive of those who support abortion up to and even after birth. The support laws which forbid providing care to a baby who has survived an attempted abortion. They support euthanasia. You tell us who are the real fascists.

These radical liberals belive the only lives worth protesting for are those of murderers who have been sentenced to the death penalty. Or are terrorists killing Jews.

Sure these Christians ideas are beyond what the halacha is, but I would say that it is clearly way less so from the abortion celebrators and those who promote euthanasia. But Old King Obama wa in favor, so now its toiras lukshen mewashington.

If the only way to secure ivf was to enact laws which state that a person can murder someone else because they called them a racial epithet or used the wrong pronouns, would you still say we should support it?

It’s the same thing. For goyim, abortion is 100% murder that they are chayav misa for.

If you’re really concerned with being able to keep the mitzva of pru urvu, and you’re not motivated by political bias and “big orange man is bad,” then you’ll see that you can’t sacrifice one mitzva to do another. We cannot support goyim doing aveiros vis a vis the 7 mitzvos of bnei noach, as they are obligated to make courts which enforce the other 6(see minchas chinuch on parshas noach, i believe it’s there).

We say in davening every day that the world should be fixed bmalchus Shakai, in the kingship of Hashem, through the keeping of His laws. We cannot support someone He is against, whether that makes us theocrats or not – we have a higher authority to answer to, one who will not care what your political philosophies are, except for that which is either in sync with, or opposed to, His divine will.