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The Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of the Agudath Israel of America plans to call Klal Yisroel to attend a mass tefila rally (Atzeres) in downtown Manhattan on Sunday afternoon, April 21st. It’s purpose is to daven to the RBS”O to save Klal Yisroel from the proposed draft gezeira in Eretz Yisroel. Anyone available in the Metropolitan New York City area may wish to set that time side for this purpose.
Does anybody have any more info about this. Such as place (street/streets) or time?
Why not make it in Brooklyn in a large indoor hall? What purpose does making it on the street in downtown Manhattan serve?
Perfect – perhaps they can coordinate with the OU’s Jewish Communities Home & Relocation Fair, also downtown next Sunday.
Manhattan is more likely be covered by the non-Jewish media.
They should have planned something for Israeli Independence Day.
This is turning into a decisive issue that will permanently split the Jewish community, with the Bnei Torah being pitted against the Am ha-Artsim.
Akuperma
So the Agudah wants a photo op and its not really about Tefillah….
WIY, why can’t it be both?
Does this mean that they want more non-learners out of the yeshivot and kollelim and into the army and work force?
Avi K -“Does this mean that they want more non-learners out of the yeshivot and kollelim and into the army and work force?”
These Gedolim are Not obsessed with a few guys who don’t belong in Yeshiva. The more pressing problem is the Israeli Gov. forcing the learning guys out of Yeshiva.
Can someone explain why this is a Gezeira? They will not force anyone to the army, they just won’t fund the Yeshiva students who don’t serve.
Firstly some communities never took money from the Medina (Satmar, Eida Chareidis) And even the ones that do, it’s a financial problem not a Gezeira.
Would it be a Gezeira if Mayor Bloomberg cut off food stamps to anyone who does Metzitza Be’Peh? No. If it’s important to you you agree to the financial loss and get your money elsewhere.
Health, everybody agrees that the real learners should continue to receive deferments. The real question is whether an entire subgroup (which is growing) should spend all of there time registered in yeshivot and kollelim (those for are not able to learn all day simply wander about or get into trouble)or if for society’s benefit and their benefit they should be pushed into the world of army service and productive work.
Shalom, actualy rhere is a case before the US Supreme Court challenging the right to withhold funds from an organization that does not declare itself opposed to certain actions. Stay tuned. However, you are correct that the word “gezeira” is misused today. If the government cuts the budget so that Israel does not wind up like Spain or Greece that is caled a gezeira.
It’s about time.
STY:
It’s a gezira because the stated goal of Lapid and his lap dog Bennet is to get the vast majority of the Chareidim out of the Bais Medrash and into the army and workforce. The fact that the first steps are “only” economic sanctions does not change the purpose and nature of this campaign.
KND, it is not an inborn,unalienable right of every Chareidi to be supported in learning forever by others.
Those who speak of gezeirot should remember what the word really means: cutting things down to their proper size (memory says that I got this insight from Sefer Haparshiyot). That’s what a tailor does when he performs gezeira on his cloth; he surely doesn’t “punish” it and the cloth doesn’t rise up in anguished protest. So is it when a government acts to reduce a bloated budget deficit, to downsize a set of educational institutions that has enrolled too many people, etc.
What’s the point of it being held in Manhattan? Wouldn’t it make more sense in Brooklyn, closer to where most attendees of such a rally live? If it is for a coverage by the media, seems like the organizers don’t think the tefillos are enough to make any impact.
How about bringing this mass gathering forward to Yom ha’Atzmaut and singing Hallel Berov Om Hadoras Melech and using this glorious opportunity to thank haShem for the Medina and parying for it to become more religious.
SF
Im just not sure what the media coverage is meant to accomplish. If secular Israelis can’t understand the value of sitting and learning they expect the non Jews to understand? I think that media coverage will cause a chillul Hashem actually because none of the non Jews in America will understand the chareidi viewpoint and what will happen is that the chareidim will end up looking bad again.
If it is for a coverage by the media, seems like the organizers don’t think the tefillos are enough to make any impact.
That’s silly. If you go to work, does that mean you think your tefillos for parnassah aren’t enough to make any impact?
Da’as Yochid, do you have anything to say about the wise words of WIY?
It’s entirely possible that non-Jews will understand more than secular Jews, because they’re not encumbered by their own guilt. But that’s not the point. This event, according to the YWN article, is not being organized to sway non-Jewish opinion anyhow, it’s meant to bring the issue to the fore for frum Yidden.
I’m sure we will see much negative media coverage, but almost any publicity turns negative, and that doesn’t automatically make it a chillul Hashem. The benefits and costs have to be weighed, as in most decisions in life.
WIY: +1
It really doesn’t make sense- how can you argue for an exemption for Torah learners to people who don’t believe in the power of Torah learning?
It’s like going to an atheist and trying to prove to him that Hashem is the true G-d, without proving that G-d exists in the first place. (Though I’ve heard that, too, so…)
how did joe know this story first and broke it here yesterday in the cr before ywn had its exclusive posted today?
They want it covered by the Media. If they did not they would have told Rabbanim privaely for everyone to say Tehillim in their own Kehillas at the same time (Perhaps via Phone or Simulcast).
By Getting a Permit and having a large outdoor event it will be covered by the media.
This is purely a publicity stunt, nothing more. And shame on the Agudah of America in becoming a puppet of some of the more extreme groups in Eretz Yisroel.
hey guys, the ones speaking out against this tefila gathering or its venue, are speaking out against the greatest gedolim in america who called for it. are you aware of this point?
hey guys, the ones speaking out against this tefila gathering or its venue, are speaking out against the greatest gedolim in america who called for it. are you aware of this point?
That is no argument, Which Gedolim are for this event?
And I am sure there are Gedolim who are against this event as well.
It really doesn’t make sense- how can you argue for an exemption for Torah learners to people who don’t believe in the power of Torah learning?
According to the article posted on YWN, the intended audience is frum Yidden.
Avi K:
“everybody agrees that the real learners should continue to receive deferments.”
If only. The fact is that the Lapid/Bennet shmad team want to put a limit on how many people are allowed to remain in full time learning; everybody else must do the Zionist’s bidding.
mdd:
For the umpteenth time, this is not just about funding. I repeat: the stated goal of Lapid and his lap dog Bennet is to get the vast majority of the Chareidim out of the Bais Medrash and into the army and workforce. The fact that the first steps are “only” economic sanctions does not change the purpose and nature of this campaign.
Naftush:
“That’s what a tailor does when he performs gezeira on his cloth; he surely doesn’t “punish” it and the cloth doesn’t rise up in anguished protest. So is it when a government acts to reduce a bloated budget deficit, to downsize a set of educational institutions that has enrolled too many people, etc.”
Call it a hunch, but somehow I don’t think you’d be singing the same tune if the date was 2005 and the subject was the Disengagement.
WIY:
“Im just not sure what the media coverage is meant to accomplish. If secular Israelis can’t understand the value of sitting and learning they expect the non Jews to understand?”
It is supposed to convey the message to the world that Jews worldwide do not support the Israeli government’s attempts to draft the Chareidim, thereby increasing pressuring on the Lapid/Bennet shmad team. But that is only a secondary function; the primary purpose is “to create awareness among Frum Yidden in America about the unfolding situation in Eretz Yisroel, where most of the funding for Mosdos Hatorah will be cut by the Government, as well as the possibility of Yeshiva Bochrim being drafted to the Army”, as YWN says on the homepage.
yetelz:
Joe runs the world.
ROB:
“And shame on the Agudah of America in becoming a puppet of some of the more extreme groups in Eretz Yisroel.”
I must admit that I find your automatic assumption that the Agudah is being a “puppet” of the E”Y Chareidim somewhat amusing. Is it really that hard for to comprehend that mainstream, American Chareidim actually oppose dragging the Israeli Chareidim out of the Bais Medrash?
DY: And they don’t know about it already?…
Then why not do it in Boro Park or Flatbush? That’s more where the frum Jews are than Water Street…
Really DY?
How many frum yidden live near Water St.?
It may simply be an issue of crowd control. Water Street is wider than any Street in Borough park. Even Raoul Wallenberg [Formerly 13th] Avenue is not as wide as Water Street, and I don’t think they would ever get a permit to cordon off Ocean Parkway for a march.
Crowd control is a serious issue, and can under no circumstances be treated lightly.
do not resubmit pending posts
It’s a stupid idea and will most likely backfire.
The question still remains: what is the point?
If as DY says it really is for frum Jews, then didn’t everyone and his next door neighbor’s brother-in-law already discuss this with the guy next to him in shul?
If not, why do they think they can convince people of something without a foundation? It’s illogical.
The following gedolei rabbonim shlita called for this day of tefila:
HaRav Simcha Bunim Ehrenfeld
HaRav Yitzchok Feigelstock
HaRav Dovid Feinstein
HaRav Aharon Feldman
HaRav Shmuel Kamenetsky
HaRav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler
HaRav Avrohom Chaim Levine
HaRav Yaakov Perlow, Novominsker Rebbe, Rosh Agudas Yisroel
Chacham Yosef Harari Raful
HaRav Aaron Schechter
Water Street on a Sunday sounds pointless. 800 2nd Avenue on a business day might interest me.
Writersoul and ubiquitin, your guess is as good as mine; I have no inside info, I just saw the YWN article. I’m guessing that they’re trying to impress upon the Hidden here how serious the issue is by making a big splash. It has little to do with who lives within a few blocks.
why do they think they can convince people of something without a foundations
I don’t think it’s about convincing.
It’s a stupid idea and will most likely backfire.
I will predict what will happen. The secular media will have mixed reviews. The Jewish Week, et al, will say how bad the chareidim are. The Yated, Hamodia, et al, will say what a kiddush Hashem it was.
There will be at least three threads about it in the CR, with many saying what a chillul Hashem it was (fill in the names of your favorite cynical, MO leaning posters), and many saying how wonderful it was (fill in the named of your favorite frummies, most of whom will be Joseph).
I won’t believe an anonymous YWN poster with a list of names. I’ll wait until I see it for myself, but if true, there is one Rabbi on that list who I somewhat respect and my respect would go down a bunch.
It’s a shame how people can be convinced to listen to all the Chicken Littles.
Israel has a mandatory draft! It’s very accommodating to frum Jews unlike the Russian army that wasn’t do accommodating for frum Jews. If we really believed that we should learn Torah all day, then go to the army as required and then go back to learning full time afterwards. I really don’t understand how this is a gezeira. The borders of Israel are getting more insecure every day and Iran is almost getting a nuclear weapon. We need a big army.
Truthsharer, we should be careful about who we talk about Talmidei Chachomim even if we don’t hear what they are saying.
there is one Rabbi on that list who I somewhat respect
Only one?! Only somewhat?!
I am moche.
kanoi next door:
actually , I think that the chareidim who call this a ‘gezeira’and make it equal to the worst excesses of our enemies (jaharog veal jaavor, destruction of torah..)is so over thw top that they are discriting themselves!!
I meant “how we talk”.
KNS, for the upteenth time it is not an inborn, unalienable right of every Isr. Chareidi to be in learning forever and be supported by others. Stop with the twisted propaganda!!!
KND, convey the message to whom, for crying out loud
?!?
KND, mainstream American Chareidim work for a living — something the Israeli Chareidim refuse to comprehend.
I will predict what will happen. The secular media will have mixed reviews. The Jewish Week, et al, will say how bad the chareidim are. The Yated, Hamodia, et al, will say what a kiddush Hashem it was.
There will be at least three threads about it in the CR, with many saying what a chillul Hashem it was (fill in the names of your favorite cynical, MO leaning posters), and many saying how wonderful it was (fill in the named of your favorite frummies, most of whom will be Joseph).
I agree 100% with this observation, except all the non Charedi will call give it a bad name and the Charedim will call all the critism Torah Hating Anti-Semities who want to destroy torah from the world
I don’t think those of us in galut should be telling Israelis how to run their defense forces.
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