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Are you aware of instances where non-Jewish babies who were adopted by Jews elected to remain non-Jewish after their Bar Mitzvah age?
Yes. I know of one.
I know of a brother and sister. The sister remained Jewish and the brother opted out.
There were two whom I went to school with. I only found out about it many years later, though. Actually, they weren’t Bar Mitzvah yet when I knew them, so it couldn’t have happened yet.
He continues to raise a 13 year old non-Jewish child, in his Jewish home, until the non-Jewish kid becomes a legal adult? (Joseph)
Wow!!! Great question. I never thought of that! So does that mean the 13 and ongoing child/person doesn’t have to eat kosher anymore? Does that complicate things at home?
So interesting! Thanks for asking this question.
Joseph- yes, exactly. Also, you never know. The child can choose to convert twenty years later because of memories from their teenage years.
In all the cases I know of, I think the family was either not-Frum or not-so-Frum at the time. I would guess that in the majority of cases in which the family is Frum, the kids do choose to be Jewish. And if the family isn’t Frum, it probably doesn’t matter so much if the kid isn’t Jewish.
Either way, they probably continue to love their kid because he is their kid. Just like a Ger loves his kids because they are his kids even though he is Jewish and they aren’t. In this case, it is probably harder because the kid is rejecting the values and lifestyle that his family raised him with.
Often a ger rejects the values and lifestyle that his family raised him with. A child who was adopted by Jews and chooses to be a Noahide is not rejecting values he was raised with.
Hey,look at the bright side – you never have to search for a Shabbos goy!
Joseph- yichud is an issue whether the child is jewish or not. If the child is jewish it is harder because the yichud issue is also relevant to the child, if not it is only relevant to the parentof the opposite gender.
Joseph: An adopted child will always cause a yichud issue – jew or non-jew.
There could be a good reason to have a non-jew living in your house
They could be your progeny. IE you were not religious man, and you had a child and ten became a BT , but still have to take care of this child
Or you could be a convert who converted but your children did not
Why is yichud more of a problem with a goyish adopted child? It could be a problem with any adopted child.
And yayin nesech is also a problem if there is a family member who is not Shomer Shabbos. It’s not such a problem – just make sure that all the wine in the house is mevushal.
RY – when a Frum family adopts a goyish baby, they convert him as a baby and bring him up to be a Frum Jew the same way they do all their other children. Even though they know he can choose to be a goy when he turns Bar Mitzvah, they raise him as a Jew and assume that he will not choose to be a goy.
The same way that they assume that their other kids will not choose to become frei. Of course one is allowed and one is not, but that is not the point. The point is that they are assuming that a kid who is brought up Frum would not dream of giving up, whether he is allowed to or not. And if one understands what being Frum is about, that is a reasonable assumption.
I would hope that most Frum people are not Frum because they feel they have to be, but rather because they want to be. If there are any who don’t, then there is a problem either with the way they were taught about Yiddishkeit or the way they understand it.
“Lilmod, if the family isn’t frum, there’s no way for the adopted child to become Jewish even if he wanted to – since he clearly isn’t being mekabel the taryag mitzvos.”
I’m just talking about the metzius – not whether or not it should be that way. I know of families that either weren’t Frum or weren’t so Frum and adopted goyim whom they brought up as Jews who chose not to be Jewish at their Bar Mitzvah.
Regarding whether or not they could have become Jewish if they had wanted to: 1. They could have chosen to be Frum even if their families weren’t. They did go to Frum schools and had some Frum siblings, so they knew what it was about.
2. I don’t know exactly how religious the families were or weren’t. It is possible that they kept some things. They may have kept Shabbos and Kashrus. And halachically, I’m not sure if the family has to keep every single halacha in such a case.If you assume the baby will choose to remain a Jew, you are not giving him a choice.
Of course you are.
If you offer someone a million dollars and tell them they don’t have to take it if they don’t want it, you assume they will take it. You have technically given them a choice, but you assume they will choose to take it.
When people adopt goyim, it’s not like a regular case of converting goyim in which we discourage the goy from converting. When a goy is adopted, we encourage him to be Jewish.
In the case I know of a child who rejected the conversion, the family was quite frum.
Yichud is not always an issue with adoption. When we adopted, we were told it was not an issue for us. Unfortunately, I didn’t ask for an explanation, and I can no longer ask that posek for one.
I know of a situation where a woman with children converted and married a Jew. Her non-Jewish children lived with them. The couple went on to have children, and the non-Jewish children were not a good influence on the Jewish ones.
I know that if I found out right now that I was a goy, I’d try a cheeseburger.
“Yichud is not always an issue with adoption. When we adopted, we were told it was not an issue for us. Unfortunately, I didn’t ask for an explanation, and I can no longer ask that posek for one.”
I think I once read an article on the topic. It was around 30 years ago, so I can’t say I remember precisely. But I vaguely remember a halachic discussion about whether or not tznius issues like yichud and negiah apply to adopted kids. It had to do with whether or not the reason that these things don’t apply to family members has to do with the fact that you view family members differently because they are biologically related to you or because you grew up with them. I think there were opinions that it is because of the second reason, and t/f these issues don’t apply to adopted kids.
Obviously, no one should posken based on this. Especially since it may be a minority opinion or it may not be a valid opinion at all.
“Obviously, no one should posken based on this. Especially since it may be a minority opinion or it may not be a valid opinion at all.”
Lol, and not because it is an article that you: think you read around 30 years ago that you vaguely remember, in which you think there were opinions that allow
That isnt the preffered way to posken?
Seriously though R’ Moshe allows yichud with children adopted at young age http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14678&st=&pgnum=122
As DoesThe Tzitz Eliezer, And I believe R’ Ovadia as wellIf you adopt a child, it is your responsibility to be a parent regardless of your child’s choices.
“Even a ben sorer umoreh?”
Never happened and never will happen (Lo hayah velo asid liyos)
Though let me guess you daven that you should be zoche to have the first to be mekayem this mitzva r”l?I know of such a case that happened many years ago. The girl was adopted by a regular family and was in a regular Bais Yaakov but she opted out of being Jewish when she became twelve. Because of the technical difficulties in raising her as a non-Jew along with their other children, her adoptive parents sent her to a boarding school for high school.
Joseph, I don’t know the details. When I knew the couple (only very slightly) they were already elderly. Someone else told me that they had adopted a non-Jewish baby who rejected Judaism when he came of age. It’s not exactly something one would ask them about.
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