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If we don’t unite from joy, we will unite through sadness.
I find the biggest examples in achdus is through sadness (except for הר סיני)
The three Israeli youths that got kidnapped
Meron
CoronaPersonally I think the סיום השס was from joy yet the last two things I brought up happened after that
Achdus with whom? Conservative? Reform? Open Orthodox?
coffee > Personally I think the סיום השס was from joy yet
yes, this is bothersome. Corona was already out at that time, we just were not aware …
The event was inspiring indeed for many people, including kids. The hesaron I noticed then (not to fully diminish inspiration) was that the speaker row was Agudah-inspired. I read somewhere that YU had their own little event and then went to the large one despite being excluded from the podium. It would be more meaningful if the “anu rotzim” include everyone in “anu”.“Achdus with whom? Conservative? Reform? Open Orthodox..”
Yes, Yes and Yes. Only “no” would be with trolls, whatever their hashkafah.
Aaq,
You’re right however this was agudah sponsored so it made sense there were agudah rabbis
However not to diminish the chassid dancing together with the young Israel attendee shouldn’t be discredited
If we want Mashiach to come then we all need to have Achdus together as one loving nation on all levels-from frei to modern orthodox to Frum to Chassidish etc….- and unite together as one loving nation for serious teshuva begging Hashem for forgiveness so we can worthy of the coming of Mashiach
May it Happen very soon
My answer to ujm is
Loving someone is different than loving what they do
Loving in Hebrew is אהבה which the שורש is הב to give
The best is to give the beauty of frumkeit over but food or money works too unless he is the type of person that’s purposely taking himself out of the klal
Reb Eliezer, is Open Orthodox enough Orthodox? If not, when is it enough?
joe Ive got a great career for you. You should ask streets and sanitation if you can be the guy who paints bright yellow lines on all the streets and medians. Keeping divisions bold and alive seems to be a strength and area of interest for you, use it for good.
CA: Are you trying to say “Love the sinner, hate the sin”??
coffee, the event did not say “Aguda’s event”, the webpage says:
The Siyum unites worldwide Jewry in an unparalleled display of achdus. Jews from all walks of life join in pursuit of a common goal – the completion of Shas, in its entirety. In countries across the globe, the dedicated ranks of Shas Yidden are learning and achieving, as they work toward the upcoming 13th Siyum HaShas. The singular allegiance to Torah will once again be apparent, when we gather to celebrate the momentous culmination once again, on January 1, 2020Aaq,
It had agudah’s logo shown everywhere, you had to be blind not to see it
AAQ: Jewry presumably includes OO (which was founded by a YU rabbi and it identifies itself as part of MO), Lev Tahor, Shuvu Bonim, Brisk, Peleg Yerushalmi, Neteurei Karta, Satmar, Lubavitch, Ponoveze and even Conservative Judaism.
Are you similarly upset those Yidden were not included in the achdus of the event you’re discussing?
Reb Eliezer: Open Orthodox claim they’re Orthodox and uphold the mesorah. Other groups also claim to be Orthodox and follow a mesorah. Who should judge which Orthodox-claiming groups are really Orthodox and correctly observing the mesorah versus which are Orthodox claiming but really anything but, and thus excluded from your call for achdus?
coffee > It had agudah’s logo shown everywhere,
That is why I am saying that two messages did not match – “unites worldwide Jewry in an unparalleled display of achdus” and a logo (or, more importantly, speakers). This detracts from the awesome event, unfortunately. I hope this was on organizers, and not the opinion of people who were learning the daf for 7.5 years though.
ujm, I have no problem with your list, other than OO , non-O and various criminals. I appreciate that expanding a circle leads to boundary problems … This is not an excuse to exclude obviously eligible.
AAQ: Why are you excluding OO, while including all the other groups? Where is your line being drawn — why is OO excluded? If you exclude OO, how can you object to others excluding other Orthodox claiming groups?
ujm, ok, include those also. I am thinking someone who was learning Gemorah daily for 7 years learned something. Let him/her in the stadium (after an exam to verify).
AAQ: So if I’m keeping good count, you’ve got OO, Lev Tahor, Shuvu Bonim, Brisk, Peleg Yerushalmi, Neteurei Karta, Satmar, Lubavitch and Ponoveze included in the achdus but Conservative affiliated people are out.
What about Orthodox predators who claim to keep the Mesorah? It is unfortunately a growing group.
The line is drawn by the level of adherence to Halacha of the communities Rabbi. If the Rabbi does not keep Halacha properly the people stand no chance. If the Rabbi keeps Halacha properly he will hopefully inspire and educate his congregants in yirat shamayim and Halacha lemaase.
And who judges the level of adherence to Halacha of the community’s Rabbi?
Not you or me, that’s for sure.
“Not you or me, that’s for sure.”
So if the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah decide to make a Torah world event (Siyum, Asifa, rabbinic meeting, protest or whatever else) unifying the various segments, kehilas and communities in Klal Yisroel including Litvish, Chasidish and Sefardic, but there’s no official MO leadership participation or invitation, then we can presumably assume the Tzadikim on the Moetzes made an informed decision resulting in the inclusion that was selected.
I remember in camp one of the popular theme songs was “Alef!, Ches!, Daled!, Vov, Suf!, we’ve got Achdus and that’s more than enough!!”
I hate to say it, but even the Siyum haShas was not an example of achdus. Let’s not forget that at the 2012 siyum, there were Chassidic rebbes who told their chassidim not to attend because Zionist Rabbonim were going to be speaking.
No, you should never presumably assume the opinion of sadikim, especially on such an issue like this one.
I understand that achdus means everyone together and different people have different views of who “everyone” is.
I would never be so arogant as to decide who is included in everyone, I am making the observation that for some, it was all jews and any exclusion is offensive while for others it means every jew who accepts Hashems Torah without trying to round the edges and cut the corners to shrink it to fit each generation.My mother worked in a Jewish social services organization. She wanted us to be raised to love all Jews and would praise all the reform and secualr Jews who would give up hours and days to pack and deliver food for the community. Especially on purim and before Pesach when nobody else helps. My brother made some comment to her about this being their “judaism”. My mom did not like that he disregarded what they do for what they don’t. My mom wanted us to love all Jews, even if we cannot approve of them.
to me, this illustrates the “two sides”, the lines just get grayer when as you move along the spectrum.
“It is unfortunately a growing group.”
What’s the name of the group?
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