Abusive marriages

Shalom Task Force hotline is at 718-337-3700 or visit online at http://www.shalomtaskforce.org. They are the best. As their ad says, “It hurts to call a domestic abuse hotline, but it hurts more not to.”

There are also shelters. Call for help

I got this from an article by Ohel: OHEL’s Domestic Abuse Program offers a range of completely confidential services from private counseling, weekly support groups, to safe dwellings. All services are free of charge. Our telephone number is 718 851-6300. Please ask to speak to our intake coordinator where you will find a sensitive individual who will take your information and refer you to our department. You will then receive a call from one of our counselors directly.

May I be a little rude. Are you 100% sure that this is the case? Different parties both male and female can play as if they are the poor innocent victim.

Question 2: Is abusive physical, mental, emotional, something else.

If there is physical abuse, then he should definitely be warned and stands to suffer severe potential damage.

If the others are the case, are there any potential possibilities of help, like therapy.

Beis Din nad/or a local rav may and should be able to help as well.

I do have a bit of experience in the field, so please don’t take my comments as “abusive”.

fabie: Well said. There are many fools who wish to destroy Yiddisha marriages, when mostly they can be saved.

As I live in E”Y I’m unfamiliar with The Shalom Task Force, and as so I can in no way pass judgement about them. My comments regard those who listen to one side, and sometimes do more harm then good. I could give examples and write specifics, but I am also crystal clear that there are unfortunately numerous cases of actual abuse.

Fabie and Tmb. May you never know the hell and gut turning feelings, of being the first on the scene,the bloodied and bruised innocents, the hollow stare of an emotionally destroyed victim, the sick private reality system, all precipitated by a dangerous sociopath. This is beyond the skill set of your average rov, and average bais din. I knew and know broad shouldered rabbonim whose bailiwick is the sordid and sad, dark side of human interface with halacha, and they had no hesitation to call the msw’s and the crisis counselors. These people are ‘standing between the living and the dead, to stop the mageifa’.

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Aries -“Of course you can’t push for divorce, etc. and you wouldn’t want to have the achrius”

Not everyone is as honest as you. My divorce was caused by an outsider pushing it. She even convinced my ex somehow that she was emotionally abused. There are a lot of evil people out there.

We need to define “Abusive”, some define an abusive relationship when the husband does not earn at least $100,000 a year.

Some signs of abuse:

I won’t get into the clinical specifics of abusive marriages; it’s not my field. But as a matter of legal services, the community pays woefully inadequate attention to the matter. There are many good honest people caught up in horrific family situations. Those issues might include domestic violence, drug use, a spouse or fomer spouse who is no longer religious, dead beat parents who don’t pay child support and myriad combinations of those issues and others. One common denominator among all those people is that they desperately need legal representation, and unless they are very well heeled or have parents who are of significant means, it isn’t available. (Remember the old joke where a prominent attorney says he wouldn’t be able to afford his own services? That’s what I mean. The cost of the legal services to really help these people is that high.) People are suffering much more in these situations than they need to because they cannot avail themselves of the legal services that might alleviate some or most of the difficulty. Attorneys, who are willing to do their part, cannot however afford to represent too many people for free; as they are called upon to do. They have families as well as staffs who have families etc. But, as a matter of trying to do their part would be willing to discount their fees to help some of these people. We in the frum legal community, especially those of us who specialize in family law, have long noted this problem and are dumbfounded by the complete lack of community response to it.

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tmb:

Good point! I pulled this list off a site, which I shouldn’t have done. Usually though, when there is abuse, the abuser matches multiple of the signs, not just one or two.

Mood swings doesnt mean becoming saddened about something, but rather flying into a rage about nothing.

As for actions dont match words: This is such a classic symptom of an abuser. And it’s certainly not as simple as a an instance of failing to do something he promised to do.

Health, I am very saddened by your situation. That is why professionals need to get involved to weed out the unsolicited advisors with the wrong advice! Women are very vulnerable beings especially when they feel unloved. If they do not feel beautiful and they do not love themselves they may fall into the trap of not feeling worthy of being love. This might not be on a conscious but on a sub-conscious level and therefor might feel unloved and vulnerable to an outsider’s influence such as in your case.

I am not about to guess what happened nor am i trying to pry into your situation. I am simply saying that people should not mix in other than to advise others to seek professional help and do whatever is necessary to make their marriage work especially if there are children involved. In today’s disposable society too many couples give up too soon thinking that there is someone else out there that will be a better mate. Unfortunately once they get what they think they want they are very sorry that they made a rash decision and would take it back if they could.

For those meddlers who carry the achrius of broken marriages on their backs, Hashem has no intention of allowing you to unload it nuch 120. You will have to face him with your din v’cheshbon and all the achrius it carries and face the onesh you deserve.

BTW Twisted, I have quite a lot of experience in this field, and have seen plenty of true abuse. Unfortunately, many of the actual cases of true abuse never get taken care of since the person being abused becomes accustomed to it. I remeber in a class we had for foster parents, their was a case of a child who said, “they missed the iron, which the father used to iron their back with.”

tryingmybest: Those are examples of normal marital conflict. Abuse is different. When an abuser is described as having mood swings – we’re talking about being really sweet one minute, hitting her the next minute. Abuse is not “why didn’t you take out the garbage”, it’s things that are not appropriate to write on yeshiva world.

Actions don’t match words – we are talking about psychopathic behaviors. Why don’t you look up the definition of sociopath and abuse.

I have a close family member who litigates divorces in the yeshivish/heimish community, and he says that 95% of divorces are the fault of the man. I also heard a big Rav saying the same thing. While yes both sides can be at faults, we have to be practical, and rescue women first, find out the facts later, or we risk losing and ruining many lives.

Fabie, you’re confusing shalom bayis problems with abuse.

“I have a close family member who litigates divorces in the yeshivish/heimish community, and he says that 95% of divorces are the fault of the man. I also heard a big Rav saying the same thing. While yes both sides can be at faults, we have to be practical, and rescue women first, find out the facts later, or we risk losing and ruining many lives. “

I don’t know who your family member is, but I’ve been litigating such cases for quite a few years. That figure is completely wrong. Like the rest of the world, most frum divorces happen due to mundane things like loss of affection between the spouses, incessant arguing and disagreements, and are not generally the “fault” of anyone.

ok, so first, speaking with rabonim, was also told it is 95% fault of men. what can we do. they are militants all over the world. some are immature with strong control needs etc. with no fine midos, good healthy upbringing, emotional maturity issues – it can be a disaster. BH I am in a great marriage, but was helping a close friend in an abusive marriage. I called Shalom tast force myself, so she doesnt have to go thru it. Thye gave me a list of telephone numbers of resources, and I did the leg work. took forever to rach people, voicemails etc. bh didnt have to put her thru that, only to find out – all resources said they could NOT help, some were unsure even why their number was given. I called back Shalom task force, they couldnt offer anything else. time for them to refreh their resources and do a serious Bedek Bayit before investing in ads in paper! I tried to contact their director, Rabbi Schonbuch, after asking friends for favors to get me his numbers. He did not return my calls. He seems busy with a paying practice, why would he care about a suffering woman in real need? I was dispapointed. I am saying 100% Emes, hoping to save tzaar to next person in dispair.

Ohel Story – called them. receptionsit had no clue who to refer me to, took messages. i called several times, and once reached higher person who said they apologized, but recent hires were temps who really didnt know how to help. meanwhile reached one of their social workers, thru personal contacts, again 9going thru regular channels brought zero success and tons of frustration) and he was nice and said he would want to help, but tachlis, got zero help from him too. situation was real.

the one who saved the day were Sister to sister, and some good people in the community who offered her shelter. was a scary story. still davening for her, but now bh she is on her own. she struggles to feed her kids (doesnt qualify for foodstamps), anyone who can offer food assistance, or other financial assitance, please let me know.

teachers said kids behavior has improved drastically since separation. BH.

Still davening for her. long way to go. now lets see the rabonim in bais din waive their fees for her. where is the jewish heart???

Hope you find this helpful.

SJS and msseeker: right.

TMB: He is a Rov who also helps with legal aspects. I used the word litigator because of the legal aspects.

Cantoresq: I don’t know what area of divorce you deal with, but many divorces are not as peaceful as you are describing.

Professional: Thank you for supporting my figure, I have heard it from more than one source.

And Health, I’ve heard enough men whining about their terrible wives who put food on the table, raise the children, suffer abuse from their husband until they realize they can’t save the marriage and it’s hurting their children as well, and then these men try to turn their children against their mother and gain custody in order to “win”. It’s your job now to PAY CHILD SUPPORT no matter how unfair life is.

A divorced man – can remarry very easily, and have a happy family. If you fixed whatever went wrong in your first marriage. It is MUCH harder for a divorced woman, they are left with nothing. Even if it was her fault, you can manage. She is suffering much mroe than you are.

So get therapy for whatever issues caused the divorce, and remarry, and stop blaming her for ruining your life.

I am sorry that the rest of the CR has to read this, but this is the truth.

A good counselor is like a good shadchun and a good shidduch. You have to keep trying till you find the right one. A good counselor is going to side with the Marriage and not with one spouse or another. If a counselor sides one way or another it is time to find another counselor! No counselor should be biased in either direction and should always be working to save the marriage! If either spouse is uncomfortable the counselor should refer them to someone else. That is a sign of a good counselor because saving the Marriage is the goal not giving points to either side for being right. So the basics would be what can either side do to make the marriage work and what are both sides willing to do to make changes in the Marriage to make it work.

And BTW that goes to any RAV you go to as well. Both sides should be equally right and equally wrong. The mediator should be able to see each issue from all perspectives.

msseeker Suggested “If you recognize yourself here, read “Stop Walking On Eggshells”.

I am the spouse of someone who suffers from & with a BPD mother. I read the book

And when you read it you will learn among many other things

1)That you are unfortunately not alone, According to one of the coauthors 65000 people have revolved trough her web community from its founding in 1995 to the publishing of the book in 1998.

2)That there is not much you can do to help, you cannot change the patient. The will to get well must come from the patient.

And yes there are times when divorce is the only option such as in those case where there are children.

3)That there is a dearth of clinicians who understand the illness (at least at the time of writing)

4)The legal ramifications, custody, property, false accusations etc are horrendous and there too few lawyers equipped.

To see the American Psychiatric Association’s criteria go to

http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.com/main/dsmiv.htm

aries, you’re assuming that the couple involved are having run of the mill shalom bayis issues. when it’s NOT the case, but where abuse is happening, keeping the marriage intact is NOT the priority, but keeping the abused party safe IS. people tend to forget that not every marriage is meant to be. as frum jews, we believe that the torah contains our blueprint for life. part of that is the institution of gittin. a good therapist will not do what’s best for the “marriage”, but for the people involved.

PB -Your posts are so outrageous, I don’t even feel they deserve a response! But I’ll answer this one- “even if your wife did abuse you, the fact that you are “bashmutzing” her the first chance you get, does not show that you learned the lessons from your first marriage.”

Please show me anywhere in any of my posts I said anything negative against my ex! Where did I say that I was abused? Also, why don’t you learn halachos of LH? If you can’t possibly know who the person is -it’s not LH.

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msseeker -Fabie, you’re confusing shalom bayis problems with abuse.

Yes, this is exactly my point. People tend to exaggerate, and miss the fine line.

mseeker & I are referring to Borderline Personality Disorder

Bipolar Personality Disease is totally different illness even though they share an acronym

sometimes the “cause” for a failed marriage is the male partner, sometimes its the female partner, probably in most cases it is both, sometimes the problems can be worked out, sometimes they cant. sometimes the wife exaggerates or lies about the husbands behavior, sometimes the husband does, generally they both have some hand in this. weve heard people from both “sides” generalizing all cases from their case.

the original poster received her answer and seemed satisfied with it. this thread is offending a number of people.