about the protest in yerushalaim

Mw13
“so we had to take matters into our own hands and fight a physical battle to save our spiritual well-being”

Shkoyach for the cute vertel. (It isnt historically accurate of course for e.g. there was no violent uprising when faced by the Spanish inquisition but I don’t mean to nitpick and it is a nice (and famous)vertel)

However it stretches credibility to call the required registration that has been in place for decades a threat in “our spiritual well being”

Ubiquitin, from the last sentence of your last post, it sounds like you are not even aware of the reason for the protests. I think you should find out the reason for the protests before you start criticizing the protesters.

LU
“it sounds like you are not even aware of the reason for the protests.”
Dont worry I am well aware of the reason. It is to provide an outlet and let off some steam. Ive been to my fair share of protests. My favorite ones where in the 90’s when people protested chilul Shabbos hoping the mishtara would show up causing more chilul shabbos than was prevented. Good times. Though sadly not as many people were inconvenienced

Shkoyach for the cute vertel.

It’s not just a cute vertel. The Chafetz Chaim was ready and willing to go to war for the spiritual future of Klal Yisroel. The Darkei Mussar (R’ Yisroel Neiman; Chanukah) writes that he was present by the Chafetz Chaim for Seudas Shlishis in Shabbos with ten Rabbanim, and the conversation turned to a new decree posed by the Russian government against Yiddishkeit. The Chofetz Chaim got up and thundered – if by the following week the decree would not be retracted, they would have to go to war.

Everyone present was stunned. (Think of the famous video of the C”C, and try picture the C”C in battle) War? Who could fight the mighty Russian empire? The C”C announced that they were not worse than the Maccabim, and although they stood no chance against the Russian Empire, they were still obligated to make a military stand. (Imagine ten rabbanim, led by the Chofetz Chaim, marching down the streets?)

However it stretches credibility to call the required registration that has been in place for decades a threat in “our spiritual well being”

You’ll have to take that up with Hagaon Hatzadik R’ Shmuel Aurebach.

MW, I was told this by a rav who has relatives who learn there. He is more reliable in my eyes than you. Of course, if someone does not want to take the stipend he need not take an exam.Even more so if he pays tuition. However, even then two exams are required for admission. I think it is fairly obviously that someone who is obviously goofing off will be asked to leave. In fact, I personally was told by two people that their rabbanim in yeshiva katana told them to go acquire professions as they were not up to par in learning.

As for every Jew being obligated to learn Torah, would you tell someone not to put on tefillin, do kibud av v’em, daven (unless he learns like Rashbi and his colleagues) so that he can learn more? See “Does Torah Study Override Army Service?” by Rav Eliezer Melamed. Of course, just as there are some soldiers who do other non-combat roles there can be some soldiers who sit and learn full-time. However, they must make some contribution to the army.

“You’ll have to take that up with Hagaon Hatzadik R’ Shmuel Aurebach.”

+1. Like MW, I follow Rav Chaim Shlita and Rav Shteinman Shlita, but no one has a right to be mevaeh Talmidei Chachamim.

Dear Yerushalmi Faction member:

Let’s understand each other before you read any further.

I am considered haredi, my children are considered haredi and so are my grandchildren. As such, no one is in a better position to look carefully at who you are, what you represent, what your goal is and what you are really accomplishing.

Basically speaking, let’s face it: you are a hooligan, a law-breaker and a wretched model of what a Yeshiva Bochur (yeshiva student, ed.) should not be. How dare you! Your wild and reckless rioting will never result in the army rescinding its draft guidelines. Your ugly shenanigans perpetrated against the rest of the innocent public will only cause the full extent of the law to come crashing down around your ears.

And so it should be. And the sooner the better.

I always tried to compare ‘our’ children to those who live in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority-administered territories. I always marveled at the wide schism of normal and human behavior exhibited by ‘our’ children in comparison to the youth across the border. Ours were taught manners, respect, decency, kindness and the relationship between man and G-D. We were taught that as human beings, our lives need to emulate that of the One Above. They, on the other hand, are taught that life has no value, decency is non existent, politeness is a waste of time and their Allah is an angry, blood thirsty deity.

And then you came along, exposing yourself to the world as a spoiled, useless piece of work who doesn’t care about the rest of society. Just who do you think you are? Your name in Hebrew, Peleg Yerushalmi, using the word peleg, says it all. Peleg means to divide, to split up, to shatter. Shame on you.

I’ve been watching you all these weeks.  I noticed that you and your fellow hoods truly believe that the world is yours. You’ve been blocking traffic, threatening, pushing, kicking and rioting in order to accomplish… what?

I watched you and your little brothers, the 8,10,12, and 14 year-olds, harass drivers and innocent by-standers only because you don’t agree with their attire. You insulted, cursed and physically mauled a woman who happened to walk by while you were displaying your ugliness on the streets of Jerusalem. You disgust me. Shame on you!

You are a disgrace. As a haredi, I am telling you that you are an unworthy imitation of a frum [religious] Jew who needs to be taught a swift, harsh lesson. I strongly believe that the army and police are treating you with too much compassion, with kid gloves. I believe the time has come for the authorities to engage you as the terrorist you are. Because you are.

It’s only a matter of time until the frustration you are creating for drivers by blocking and delaying them will explode in your face. It will only be a matter of time until a frustrated driver runs you down. That anger was demonstrated already in the city of Bnei Brak as a furious driver came out swinging with a stick. How much longer before someone cracks your head?

In addition to your grotesque behavior, you are a total hypocrite. You are demonstrating against the draft because the Torah is what you are concerned about. Right? Not so fast.

What you really want is to be left alone to continue on your merry way of doing absolutely nothing with your life. Because you are obviously not learning. Seeing the hundreds of hours you’ve wasted, learning is the last thing on your mind. How many precious hours, days, weeks have you already squandered in this manner? How many enemies to the Torah way of life have you created during that wasteful time? Can’t count, can you?

The audacity and ugliness which you portray, have no limits. In your audacious chutzpa you have no qualms about calling our soldiers and police officers the vilest of names. How dare you spit the word Nazi and hurl it at a Jewish son, my nephew, your neighbor? These are the same ‘Nazis’ – you moron – who’d sacrifice their lives to protect your worthless one. These are the same ‘Nazis’ who will not hesitate for a second to save you, the one who vilifies them with vile epithets. When you need them, you appreciate their presence and sacrifice, don’t you? Shameless ingrate.

Were I in a position to do so, I would treat you quite differently, my young idiot. I would give you an hour ultimatum, sixty minutes exactly, to cease and desist and if you don’t, I would then follow up with riot-control methods you haven’t yet experienced. Believe me, your eagerness to riot and damage and sit in front of cars will quickly dissipate as you and your colleagues disappear like smoke in the wind.

And then….I would send my ‘Nazis’ to knock on your door and your friend’s and his buddy………every single, rioting young man. There will be no more extensions or postponements for you and the rest of your gang. You will be drafted immediately and sent for training, not to be furloughed for the next number of years. You will be cured of your sickness, believe me.

And your brother, when he reaches the draft age, will meekly, politely and precisely sign the registration papers without a whimper.

That time is coming.

Isaac Kohn is SVP of HealthPoint Acquisitions.

edited

mw- i don’t believe for a second that you think the two are comparable. the question isn’t rational or even worth answering.

SL:
So now we can get to the crux of the actual issue instead of just lobbing insults at each other.

Is the means of protest really the issue here? Do people really think that blocking traffic is an absolutely illegitimate and reprehensible form of protest?

If that were true, then they should be saying the same about the protests in Yitzhar as well.

(Also realize, the protests in Yitzhar have even less of a chance of actually being effective in stopping terror attacks than the Peleg protests have of getting the draft rescinded.)

Or is is the complaints about the means of protest a straw man, and what the protest are about is the real issue?

But SL, while we’re on the subject of non-rational comparisons, as you so politely put it, I’m wondering what your thoughts are about comparing blocking traffic to murdering innocent people, aka terrorism?

Or this: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1248943/photos-disabled-protestors-block-the-entrance-to-ashdod.html

“Just curious if ubiq & avi k think that this is also “to provide an outlet and let off some steam”, “time to play in the street and inconvenience others”, etc?”

I dont follow. Are they inconvenencing others? What is the connection?

The real crux of the issue is there is not much that can eb doen about it, which is why People are calling for murder/death penalty and comparing to terrorsim, there is no rational way to deal with these people (of course calling for merder is absurd, which is my point) this isnt a rational protest over a real issue. This is pure mayhem for the sake of mayhem. These people have no interest in reason, they have no job that they are missing and no Torah they are missing either. They can spend their days in and out inconvenencing others who do have to go to work learn etc. And not much that can be done.
There is no comparison to disabled people protesting, who a have a specific goal made their point and moved on. The fact that you provide a report of one incident, with not many people being inconvenienced and ended quickly, highlights how your comparison (much like the comparison to terrosim) is absurd

I am not sure you want to compare a bunch of Buchrim protesting registering for the draft to people in a wheelchair who need some extra help. You are not going to win many debates with that comparison

Reductio ad Hitlerum.

Godwin strikes again.

LU, I’m still waiting for your source that most dati soldiers become not frum.

mw, I have to agree with ubiq that you are calling it quits for the direction of ad hominem and hatred but it sounds like you are the one who is angriest and attacking personally. On the other hand I agree wholeheartedly with you that this thread needs to close. As a matter of fact I think I have actually done it already once.

I would think it would benefit everyone who posted here to reread some of the posts that angered you so much and see, when removed, if it really said what you thought/accused it of saying. I believe there were more foaming mouths responding to things they assumed they read then what they actually read. And that prejudice we carry, I believe, is even sadder that the subject at hand.

Good Shabbos all.