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GAW – “want to have a family should pair up (as friends of course,”
I don’t think this would be Mutter. Do you have any Rabbi/Rov that holds this way?
Pac-Man-
Did you see what just happened- I quoted what a friend of his told me and all these years of hard work building up a reputation went down the drain because he says it’s not true!
Now you know why I stay away from controversial threads?
Dr. P.:
I totally sympathize with you. I’ve had the exact same experience here!
Next thing you know, you will be me.
your reputation went down the drain because someone you know gave you bad information?
it didnt drop one iota by me.
wait…..you mean hes not you?
Do you wanna change that Ph.D. to Joseph? It’s much more popular here.
GAW – “want to have a family should pair up (as friends of course,”
I don’t think this would be Mutter. Do you have any Rabbi/Rov that holds this way?
That was an angle I was not thinking about. There might be Morris Ayin? The whole issur (for girls) probably (as per the Rambam) isn’t even a D’Rabannan, so that would not be an issue.
If that was not your angle, please tell me why you think it would be assur.
AZ-
You know what your ideology is and I’m not bringing it up anymore. I’ve tried to discuss it with you in a civilized manner but you refused.
Before NASI had a website you used to say over and over again that NASI has the backing of over 70 Gedolim, but you never mentioned who they are. You directed me to look at the ad they placed in the Yated which raised more questions (not a single human name was mentioned in the ad, just an address to send $50 to).
I went to speak to my Rosh Hayeshiva about the organization to see if he was one of the 70 Gedolim who gave his endorsement. He wasn’t there at the time but I asked a talmud who is close to him if he signed the letter. He told me that you asked him to but he refused.
When I asked him some more questions he pointed to a person who he said you were schmoozing with during your visit and suggested that he may be able to provide some more information.
This person claimed to know you although he didn’t know that you’re AZ from YWN. (I mentioned that he’s your friend because you went over to schmooze with him, I never said he’s a close friend.) He’s the one that told me that you claim to know everything from A to Z.
I try very hard to always have factual information. If something is my opinion, I try to state it. Things I hear from others I make sure to mention that I heard it from someone else (unfortunately I can’t mention who for obvious reasons).
In my opinion it’s ludicrous to discredit a poster based on a quote he heard from someone else which you claim is inaccurate.
Maybe we can set up a time and place and brainstorm shidduchim and share possibilities. serious people only.
Ofcourse: Why do you keep asking that? What AZ has been saying is quite clear. There is NO SOLUTION possible to get all the current girls married. Period. End of discussion.
To quote AZ’s comment from the previous page:
“Is it possible for all of them… i’d rather not answer that question- It’s simply too painful.”
Where do we learn that a bas kol comes down 40 days before a child is born and says who the shidduch is? But if that is true, than anyone who says there are not enough men/women is basically calling Hashem a liar. I know a lot of single girls who are over the age of 25 who are going on dates left and right. So the statement of not enough is false. Why they say no to the guy is a different story, and good luck to them. But I don’t for one second doubt that Hashem has it all prepared for us, not only in terms of shidduchim but EVERYTHING! Hishtadlus is of course important, but if you think that what you do makes a difference, you are crazy! Its All Hashem, JUST DAVEN! That is really all we can do. And daven for each other. Don’t ever lose faith, The One Above is watching over all of us, and He will take care of us. Baruch Hashem every day!
It seems to be ovbious that pacman is joseph and as for my identity it’s not even a secret.
so NO Pacman is not AZ. Joseph is just playing his joseph games.
Of course: for starters lets make sure that five years from now the problem is far smaller than it is now as opposed to having it be far greater..
Dr. Pepper:
sorry just saw your post now.
The letter with the names of the 70 R”Y who signed has been published again and again. I’d be happy to send you a copy of the original letter. If there is any way for me to email it to you or to YWN editors and for them to send to you i’d be happy to do so. Feel free to send a email to [email protected] and they’ll send you the original letter as well. I’m not sure what else i can offer.
with regards to ideology, i apologize, but i don’t remeber your previous attempts at dialogue. I’m not denying, I simply don’t remeber. Feel free to remind me.
With regards to R”Y who didn’t sign.
A. I didn’t approach the R”Y myself so it wasn’t me. More importantly, To the best of my knowledge the only two R”Y who where approached and didn’t sign (Rav Chaim Epstein and Rav Meir Stern) BOTH strongly encouraged the efforts to close the age gap, but they declined to put their name on the letter for personal reasons, NOT as a lack of support of the efforts or the attempts to encourage close in age shidduchim.
These girls should consider moving to Israel where there are many Men 30 years and older that are looking for their zivug.
Many of these fine religious men did not get married because their families could not afford 1/2 the price of an apartment as is the custom is here.
There are also many very fine religious English speaking B.T., divorced and widowed men here as well for woman of all ages, or levels of observance or Groups (Litvish, Chasidic or Sefardic)
It is not neccessary for any Jewish religious girl or women of any age or background to remain single if they are willing to expand their options and not box themselves in.
Mishanah hamakom, mishanah HaMAZAL.
Gavra-at-work, you are so mistaken. It is definitely assur for girls min’HaTorah. There is no malkus, however, as it is a lav she’be’klalus.
To get married for girls civilly (without doing anything) would be a major Chilul Shem Shamaim.
Gavra-at-work, you are so mistaken. It is definitely assur for girls min’HaTorah. There is no malkus, however, as it is a lav she’be’klalus.
To get married for girls civilly (without doing anything) would be a major Chilul Shem Shamaim.
There is a problem with a girl having a roommate? That’s news to me. It’s probably also news to many (all?) seminaries.
If you ignore the part about other legal stuff (which was parenthetical anyway), that’s what he is suggesting. Two girls become roommates. They each adopt a child. They each have a built-in babysitter.
Who (other than you) said anything about getting married civilly?
Whether you are making shidduchim for money, for the mitzvah or because you like people hounding you at all hours of the day, your job is hindered by the fact that many who you work with have no clue what they are looking for. They use nice adjectives like “baalas middos, masmid, tzanua, has a personality”, but have no idea what they really mean. They are following the herd mentality of going to hich school a, seminary b, shadchan c, to look for a shidduch from among the bachurim in yeshiva d.
If u ever “ret” a shidduch and hear the questions being asked ..then u would understand everything! Before u hear anything about the girl its right away how skinny is she what size clothing is she (like she will stay thaT size all her life) we need a picture… Are we trying to find a wife or a model for a magazine
And that’s just the tip of it …such crazy questions
I am hearing more and more of “older” single girls marrying widowers with kids and I aplad them but too many in the litvish world would not hear of going out w some body who waS married bf even I’d no kids its crazy to just turn down u never know who your beshert is
@Gavra & Haifagirl-
Whether or not it would be assur to do such a thing, it would be condeming any child brought into that “family” to a life of misery – both at home, and socially (somehow I don’t think that the kid’s classmates would see that family as a usual situation, and (s)he would be easy fodder for taunting).
Correction-
I agree with you 100%. I dont see what this thread is supposed to accomplish besides for sucking out every last bit of hope from girls who are still single
Yummy cupcake and Miss Frizzle- Couldnt have said it better myself!
To everyone else- Shame on you for putting fear and dread into these girls already broken hearts
“There is NO SOLUTION possible to get all the current girls married. Period. End of discussion.”
Joseph- Do you or do you not agree that Hashem can do the impossible?
Hashem is mizaveg zivugim. Period. End of discussion.
Ofcourse: I don’t understand your comments. Frumkeit is not a choice that a girl can discard because it hasn’t worked out for her or she is c”v unable to marry.
We can’t lose sight of the fact that for the Ribbono Shel Olam, there is no “shidduch crisis”. Some girls (and guys) have the nisayon of having to wait longer than their friends to find their zivug. Some couples have nisyonos with fertility, others with parnossa. We certainly have to be mishtadel on behalf of everyone, but I’m guessing our most powerful tool is the age old “vitamin T” – tefilah and tehillim.
Do you or do you not agree that Hashem can do the impossible?
Hashem is mizaveg zivugim. Period. End of discussion.
Ein somchin al hanes.
Unfortunately, the 25+ situation is common in the Chassidishe crowd as well. The bottom denominator is very often money. The Rosh Yeshiva in our group whose daughter just got engaged at 23 B”H, when asked what the story was, we were told that most boys want at least support of $1,000 a month to which he replied he does not have and won’t lie, when a shaddchan suggested that he lie and after 2 months say he can’t. I know of 26+ girls who already own a house(no mortgage) and earn enough to support a family but many boys(actually it is usually the parent(s)) want the support to come from the parents!
About girls marrying widowers, it is happening in all circles. These girls are very special as the ones that i know who did it are doing a great job. The most recent is a shidduch of a 26 year old engaged to her brother in law, a widower of her sister A”H. Who are we to understand the ways of Hashem!?!?!?!?
Ein somchin al hanes.
The discussion you are quoting relates to the situation of the current generation of girls, with the contention being made that there is no longer any possible solution that they will all be able to find a shidduch.
How does saying “Ein somchin al hanes” address that point? The point was there is no natural solution possible. So what else can we do other than, in fact, hope for a nes?
We can continute to work very hard at closing the age gap/enocuraging close in age shidduchim etc. as this has a direct trickle up effect on the helping the older girls as well.
Can it help everyone, who knows? Can it help some – even many- DEFINATELY!. Therefore we MUST do whatever we can (with guidance from gedolim).
Even if we can’t help everyone that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do as much as we can!!! For these girls the time is NOW. Every week month that goes by it gets harder and harder.
Now I’d like to ask a question of all CR members:
what have YOU done today, this week, this month, this year, to alleviate the situation (other than post in the CR).
what have YOU done today, this week, this month, this year, to alleviate the situation
I married a girl.
AZ – Get a 40 y.o. guy to marry a 40 y.o. woman -how many do you think will agree with this?
is your math counting all of the divorced men, widowed men, and ba’alei teshuvah?
there are many, many reasons why girls are not married (as well as why boys are not married), and i feel az is addressing probably one of the most insignificant ones. However, if it gets people to think about the single girls and set them up, then at least it is doing some good. Yes, all of the gedolim care about the plight of the tons of single boys and girls, it’s the method of fixing the problem that they may or may not agree upon.
The discussion you are quoting relates to the situation of the current generation of girls
To me, the phrase “Hashem is mizaveg zivugim. Period. End of discussion.” is denying the imperative to do hidhtadlus to alleviate the problem. This is what I was addressing.
Again, the discussion was of the the problem relating to the *current* generation of older girls. We are being told that *there is no solution*. So what else is there but a nes, for *all* the *current* girls to get married?
Maskim (except maybe many new male baalei teshuvah).
There are more of those than new female b”t?
Haifagirl -“If you ignore the part about other legal stuff (which was parenthetical anyway), that’s what he is suggesting. Two girls become roommates. They each adopt a child. They each have a built-in babysitter.”
The S’A says two women together (Toeiva) is either Ossur M’drabbanim or D’orysa. The S’A also says that two men can be Meyached together -be roomates because Jews aren’t Chosut (accuse)on Toieva. This would be the same for two women. Once you go beyond the boundry of two people just being roomates, like for example this case, two women acting as parents, even if right now they aren’t doing anything Ossur, I see no reason how Yichud would be Mutter. You are putting two people in a entirely different situation than roomates, they are having a very intimate relationship -raising a child together. This would definitely be Ossur because of Yichud!
The halachic genius expressed in this thread is astounding!!!
There are more of those than new female b”t?
No, but if it happened, it wouldn’t be a nes (or at least not as big a nes as a bunch of single “FFBs” suddenly appearing out of nowhere).
So, DY, in your humble opinion, considering that you feel that there is no way (short of a neis) that all the current older single girls can all get married… what will be with them?
“Ein somchin al hanes.”
“To me, the phrase “Hashem is mizaveg zivugim. Period. End of discussion.” is denying the imperative to do hidhtadlus to alleviate the problem. This is what I was addressing. “
I did not say that we shouldnt do hishtadlus and everything in our power to help these girls. All I said was that you can not make a blanket statement like that and say its impossible for these girls to get married.
We are mechuyav to have emunah that Hashem is all powerful and can do anything
I redt a 26 year old female to a 24 year old male. She responded “I’m not a cradle snatcher”.its not as simple as setting up “close in age shidduchim” to alleviate the “crisis”. The underlying social expectations as it relates to shidduchim needs a major overhaul. The idea that families must go into hock in order to secure shidduchim for their children is absurd. The notion that everyone must “sit and learn” and demands a shidduch that allows him to do so is quite frankly retarded. The idea that proper hishtadlus for parnassah is signing up for government programs (a neighbor of mine went out with a fellow last night who expressed this plan for hishtadlus) is frightening. Shidduch crisis? Social expectations have reached ridiculous proportions.
work on one single at a time: find out if they’re ready to get married, what they’re looking for, and help them find their proper match. keep doing this – this is hishtadlus. don’t worry about the math – that’s krias yam suf – that’s Hashem’s department. keep davening for the singles and keep setting them up with appropriate matches.
(and raise children who are emotionally healthy who desire and know how to establish relationships and know how to build a bayis neeman b’yisrael).
for any singles out there reading this thread: relax. daven. do your hishtadlus and work on your bitachon. Hashem will help you! Ignore all these doomsayers.
what will be with them?
Do I know? Am I (or did I ever claim to be) a navi?
Al pi teva, some will get married, and some won’t.
Does anybody have a better answer than that?
And if someone answers that every single girl (take that with both meanings) will get married, I ask: was there ever any person who ever did not get married in their lifetime?
So if any older unmarried boy (or even male divorcee or widower) wants to get married, he should not have much problem, since there are more available girls than boys could ever marry.
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