A Solution: Finding Shidduchim (aka “Shidduch Crisis”)

Specifically, limiting the size of guests

That’s a fabulous idea, because the larger guests usually eat much more, so this will cut down the expense of the caterer.

DY,
“Specifically, limiting the size of guests

That’s a fabulous idea, because the larger guests usually eat much more, so this will cut down the expense of the caterer.”

Great idea! But how will we implement it?

Will there be a scale at the entrance? Will you have to send in your weight in advance? Will invitations be sent based on the obvious…? What if the Chasson or immediate family is overweight? What’s the Halacha if they are currently on a strict diet?

Joseph: Unless Reb Chaim is suffering from dementia (which itself is grounds for nullificaiton of a chassanah), if he doesn’t want to marry Shaindel, or Suralah, or Chanalah or whomever, no Beis Din will make him marry. You can fantasize or troll about the theoretical authority of a beis din, but in the real world, we don’t force a marriage on unwilling partners.

DY,

Agreed on all, the only issue left – will it be ‘Chazon Ish’ shiur or ‘Rav Chaim Noe’/Shu”A shiur?

If it depends in minhag – will be the Chasson or the guests…

“about the theoretical authority of a beis din, but in the real world, we don’t force a marriage on unwilling partners.”

It’s Mr. Hadorah versus Halacha.

We follow Halacha.

“A month later they divorce… unfortunate for Shaindel.”

GAON: Beis Din is fully authorized to prevent a husband from divorcing his wife. Especially in such circumstances as we are discussing.

Actually, Gadol, it sounds like a Midrash about Malkat Sheva matching up her servants in response to Shlomo Hamelech’s statement that Hashem makes shidduchim….

Say your proposal was implemented. Let’s look at a hypothetical grade of 50 BY girls who just came home from seminary and are now following your takana. (sorry, this is going to be long)
The exceptions clause:
1. Sheindy has medical issues that will make it very hard for her to get married. She goes to the vaad and gets an exemption that the class does not have to wait for her. Chaya has emotional issues stemming from her dysfunctional family life, and will need extensive therapy for many years before she can have a healthy relationship. She too gets the exemption. Rocheli was abused as a child and does not feel ready to be married. She goes to the Vaad too. Now the Vaad puts out a list of the singles that the class need not wait for- and everyone knows that these girls who until now kept their issues private and discreet, have serious problems. They stop going to public events because they are embarrassed by the pitying stares and murmurings about what their issues may be. And when they do work out their issues, if possible, their chance of getting married is about 0.
2. Dina also has some issues that makes her feel not ready to get married. But seeing what her 3 friends have gone thru, she dare not approach the Vaad for her own exemption.
Everyone else should be able to get married now, as long as their friends make sure to make their shidduchim.
10 girls get engaged the year back from Sem. Another 15 the following year, and another 10 the next year. So 35 of the class are engaged by 21. They are all busy trying to set up their remaining friends, which moves things along nicely for most of the class. Another 5 get engaged the following year.
except:
1. Yocheved gets engaged to a guy from a more modern background, which fits her perfectly. Problem is that the guys in his circles are not appropriate for her other classmates who are more yeshivish, and as much effort as they put into it, their suggestions are turned down as not appropriate.
2. Yael gets engaged to Moshe. She wants to set up Moshe’s chavrusa, Shimon, with one of her friends, but Moshe insists that he is better for his neighbor’s daughter, Shifra, who went to a different school. Yael agrees that Shifra is probably better suited for Shimon, but her idea wins since they both want to get married as quickly as possible. The shidduch does not work out, and then they try to set him up with 3 more of Yael’s classmates. By then, Shimon is reluctant to take any more suggestions from Moshe since they have been so off. It takes another 3 years before someone else thinks of the idea and Shimon and Shifra get engaged.
3. Penina gets engaged to a much older guy whose friends are all married already. Try as they might, they have no one to set up Penina’s friends with.
4. Mindy is a very shy, introverted girl who most people forget about. After some struggling, she gets engaged to Dovi, who is very much like her. They are very happy together, but because of their limited social skills and class connections, they just can’t make a shidduch.

Meanwhile, despite the takana and the classmates good intentions, some just don’t get engaged quickly:
1. Esther’s Bshert is 3 years younger than her and does not start to date until he is 22. It takes them a year to find each other, which means she does not get engaged until she is 26.
2. Rena’s Bshert is Danny. In college Danny begins to think about the significance of being Jewish, after graduation he goes off to E”Y to learn in a BT yeshiva for 3 years, then moves on to a more mainstream yeshiva. After 2 years, he is ready to date. He meets Rena when she is 28.
3. Leah’s Bshert, Asher, married the wrong person (the couple felt pressured by the new takana and got engaged even though they both had some serious doubts). After 6 years, much of it in marital counseling, the couple finally realized there was nothing they could do to save their marriage and they got divorced. Asher spent 2 years in counseling before he could think about marrying again. He married Leah, who was then 31.
4. Malky is waiting for her older sister Chana to get married first (she graduated before the takana was instituted). Her parents are insistent that no one in the family skip her. Chana finally gets engaged when Malky is 23, and then Malky starts to go out and gets engaged 6 months later.
5. Batsheva is the cream of the class, pretty, talented, smart, a GREAT girl. Everyone tries to set her up. But none of the guys are good enough for her, and it takes 5 years until she finds the TOP boy to marry.
6. Tova wants to marry a learner and live a kollel life, but her family has no means to offer support. After speaking with her parents and their Rav, they feel she should first get a degree in a good field so she can support her husband before she starts to date. Even with her sem credits and an accelarated program, she will only start to date at 22. While she feels this unusual move is right for her, she will be putting her whole class on hold, and this is another factor she need to think of in what should be a personal decision.

And among the happy 40. who are engaged and waiting for the rest…
Yossy, Reuvein, Shraga and Mutty just can’t wait any longer. They break their engagements and find shidduchim with older girls whose classed graduated before the takana took effect. They get married right away.
Ahuva and Aharon start to argue and get cold feet and break up. Same with Gila and Gershon.
Temima and Tuvya, and Devora and Dovid realize that they only got engaged because of the class pressure and break their engagements as well. B”H they had not gotten married yet…
Levi is very frustrated, and just can’t concentrate on his learning anymore. He also starts to question the system and the Rabbanim who made such a mess of his life. He leave Yeshiva, goes to college, ends up going OTD and obviously, his kalla Liora is left behind as well.
3 other couples just can’t wait any longer and decide to defy the takana. They move to E”Y and get married there.
Brocha and Binyomin are also frustrated. Brocha’s father, who just donated a whole bunch of money to the yeshiva, the girls’ school and the local shuls, gets a special dispensation from the Vaad for them to marry now.
Dassy and Miriam convince their parents to go into debt so they too can “acquire” such a dispensation, but it doesn’t work for them. There is a lot of grumbling in the class and resentment, towards Brocha, the 3 couples who defied the takana, and of course, the ones who are not yet engaged. The Vaad does not make the class wait for those 9 girls with broken engagements who need to find new shidduchim.

Shiddiuch crisis solved!!!

Rebbitzin, your back-up solution is one up for discussion. Having the condition be to make a shidduch or show effort to do so in general, and not limiting it to just to getting their own class married will be much more productive as my hypothetical cases shows.
But again, you have to realize that some people are good at making shidduchim and have a lot of siyata dishmaya, and others are not. Also, shidduchim can take time to come to completion- and engagements should not be longer than necessary. The couple can take a kabala on themselves to try, and show their effort. But I doubt every couple will be able to pull off a successful shidduch, even if given a year or 2 to do so after their wedding.
I have another suggestion that might be more practical, and still accomplish what you want- which is that couples should care and try to help those “left behind”. Each class should set up a database with every girl, her details and what she is looking for. As girls get engaged, they should get info from their chassanim on the single boys that they know and enter them in the database. There would be a programmer/database manager as well as an actual shadchan who would make the matches through the database. These would receive some salary for their work from a fund set up by each couple who gets engaged- perhaps they could use the masser money from their chasanu presents if they don’t have other funds, or make it some % of the total wedding expenses. This is something positive they can do to help others with shidduchim without being penalized for other people’s personal decisions.

Rebbitzen, the school situation is not the same – I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think that the issue was girls who needed special schools or were not fit for formal schooling who did not get into the mainstream BY High schools. I don’t think they were part of this pool at all. Getting everyone in to school is something that can be taken care of in a matter of days or at most weeks, if people have the will. How can you compare girls missing out on a few weeks of school to couples waiting to get married for 10 years?
And Joseph, the reason I did not reply to you I think is obvious. No current Beis Din is forcing all the single 30-40-50 year old men to get married, so the Halacha L’maaseh is not as you make it out to be. My opinion on the matter is moot.

Jo,
“Winnie, how is it that you give a detailed response to a non-serious extra-halachic suggestions of Mr. Rebbetzin yet leave unaddressed my serious and very much halachic suggestion?”

I think WTP basically said what I told you earlier in one nutshell:

“You omitted the last part:

A month later they divorce… unfortunate for Shaindel.”

As for your BesDin taynah. No bes din has any power to be gozar any such tekanos. Same goes to Rebetzin, Marrying is a mitzvah dOraisa and in most cases the chasson is above the age of 21 so EVERY day that it is postponed (once one is ready) for no legit reason is sort of an issur…

GAON:

1. I already answered your very poor point about the husband attempting to divorce his new wife.

2. You are arguing against the Halacha according to the collective wisdom of Chazal, the Rishonim and the Mechaber.

3. See my most recent comment to Winnie about the Beis Din.

4. Your comments are very simplistic and have neither the complexity not depth required to make major Klal decisions. You also have a tendency to put words in other people’s mouths.

“You are arguing against the Halacha according to the collective wisdom of Chazal, the Rishonim and the Mechaber.”

Name the source please. I named a source in tosfos.

” I already answered your very poor point about the husband attempting to divorce his new wife.”

My point was that if a marriage is forced it will most likely end up with :

כִּי יִקַּח אִישׁ אִשָּׁה וּבְעָלָהּ, וְהָיָה אִם לֹא תִמְצָא חֵן בְּעֵינָיו – כִּי מָצָא בָהּ עֶרְוַת דָּבָר, וְכָתַב לָהּ סֵפֶר כְּרִיתֻת וְנָתַן בְּיָדָהּ וְשִׁלְּחָהּ מִבֵּיתוֹ.

The only way it can be prevented is if the woman refuses. But in this case, both will want out.

“Your comments are very simplistic and have neither the complexity not depth required to make major Klal decisions. ”

You remind me of a one liner said by the אור שמח.

Someone was trying to convince Rav Meir Simcha ztl a certain chidush which he totally dismissed. The mechadesh being upset confronted him: היתכן you are not accepting my chiddush, you did not even שלאג it אפ!
On that the או”ש replied
(a play in yiddish words

עס איז צוגישלאגן – דארף מין אפשלאגן אויב
אויב עס איז ניט צוגשלאגן – דארף מען ניט אפשלאגן