Home › Forums › Tefilla / Davening › A Minyan of Only 10
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October 26, 2011 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #600180Yankie DoodleMember
With a minyan of only 10 men, all 9 must respond to every Amen, otherwise it is a bracha l’vatala by the shliach tzibbur.
October 26, 2011 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #821231Sam2ParticipantNot quite, but it’s a nice thing to say to get everyone to answer.
October 26, 2011 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #821232Yankie DoodleMemberIf they don’t all answer, you are lacking a minyan.
October 26, 2011 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #821233ChachamParticipantlav-davka
The Mishna Berura brings from the Shulchan Shlomo an eitza that the shliach tzibbur should make a tnai that if the tzibbur does not answer chazaras hashatz should just be a nedava
October 26, 2011 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #821234Yankie DoodleMemberIn that case all 10 people lost out davening with a minyan, since there was no minyan answering.
October 26, 2011 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #821235Sam2ParticipantYD: Once again, not quite true. In fact, a sleeping person can count as one of the 10 for a Minyan. You should have 9 (10 actually) answering at all times but sometimes this just doesn’t work. And the Lashon of the Poskim is “Karov Livachos Levatalos”, not quite actually Brachos Levatalos.
October 26, 2011 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #821236ChachamParticipantalso bshaas hadchak if one person is in middle of amidah we are still metzref him to begin chazaras hashatz. And some poskim say you can include a sleeping person in that room for a tenth listener.
The real question is, in a minyan of only ten and there is a kohen who cannot duchen and regularly he will be required to wallk out, does he walk out over here?
October 26, 2011 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #821237ObaminatorMemberSo what’s the bottom line? 9 sleepers and one Sha”tz is a kosher minyan?
And if it is less than 9 answering, is it still considered to be a minyan?
October 26, 2011 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #821238ChachamParticipantNo you definitely need 6 people answering for it to be chazaras hashatz
October 26, 2011 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #821239Mayan_DvashParticipanta sleeping person? What is your source?
October 26, 2011 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #821240Sam2ParticipantI believe it’s a T’shuvah in the Tzitz Eliezer quoting I believe a Pri Megadim.
(I know the Tzitz Eliezer mentions it. I do not recall if his Maskanah is that he holds like it. Either he didn’t or I read the T’shuvah and was upset by the fact that he didn’t because the M”B calls it Korov Lebrachos Levatalos. But there are definite legitimate sources for it.)
October 26, 2011 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #821241sheinMemberIf the above shittas is correct that you don’t need all 9 answering, then why do you need 6 davening with the minyan + 4 not davening but answering with the minyan? You should be able to have a minyan of only 6 people.
October 26, 2011 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #821242Sam2ParticipantShein: A Minyan is 10 people. Period. Then comes the issue of what those 10 have to be doing precisely towards the Minyan. But if there are not 10 people physically there then you don’t have anything to start the conversation with.
October 26, 2011 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #821243sheinMemberThat’s my point, Sam. I’m asking exactly that – then why the other way I compared it to is okay.
October 26, 2011 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #821244☕️coffee addictParticipantCan a mute person (not a deaf mute) be included in a minyan
October 26, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #821245Sam2ParticipantCoffee addict: Yes.
The whole Sugya is complicated and has several different very technical opinions. For most things we seem to hold that 6 people actually doing whatever we need a Minyan for is necessary for a Minyan. For others (Kriyas Hatorah on Simchas Torah is a very good example) we seem to hold you might only need 1.
October 26, 2011 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #821246minyan galMemberAnd what happens if “nature” calls during the davening and one of the 10 needs to leave for a few minutes? Does the entire minyan take an intermission? This is one reason that I have often heard that the 11th person in the minyan is very important.
October 26, 2011 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #821247bein_hasdorimParticipantMG; Also the twelfth person if two ppl need to go.
October 26, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #821248YW Moderator-80Memberduring intestinal flu epidemics (yes health i know there is really no such thing as intestinal flu) you need 15-20 to be on the safe side.
October 26, 2011 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #821249bezalelParticipantDoes the entire minyan take an intermission?
It depends when the tenth left. For example if he left during the repitition the chazzan continues with the repitition and the kaddish following it.
October 26, 2011 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #821250☕️coffee addictParticipantSam2,
Do you have a mekor?
This could be the way to answer yd
October 27, 2011 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #821251Yankie DoodleMemberHow many mispallelim must, minimally, be up to the Amida for the minyan to start shemone esrei?
October 27, 2011 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #821252ChachamParticipanti think the most bdi eved shitta is 6 people answering.
October 27, 2011 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #821253Sam2ParticipantCA: No one says otherwise.
YD: I would assume we hold 6 by this also. It’s all the same issue, I think. It’s not a real Tefilla B’tzibbur (according to the M”B at least) unless there are 10 though.
October 27, 2011 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #821254sheinMemberi think the most bdi eved shitta is 6 people answering.
Which shittas say you need more than 6?
And are you talking about needing 6 ready to start to shtille S”E together or 6 ready to listen/respond to start the hoieche S”E?
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