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I’m a Bais Yaakov girl from a regular yesheivish family in a frum yeshiva community. For the last many months, I’ve been struggling immensely with Yiddishkeit, but with the help of Hashem and my parents, I did not go completely off. I have taken many steps recently to improve my Yiddishkeit in many ways and I have gotten answers to many things I wanted to understand. However, I still have a few questions that I did not feel comfortable asking anyone, even a Rav (which I might do if no one answers my questions here). These questions aren’t a make-it-or-break-it with my Yiddishkeit, so no one should feel that their answers will throw me off. I want to hear genuine, honest, and straight-up answers. I don’t get offended by the truth.
Here is my first question:
Women aren’t מחויבות in מצוות עשה שהזמן גרמא, and I’ve always learned that the reason for this is that the job of women is to be busy with taking care of their homes and their children. Why couldn’t Hashem figure out a way that we could do all that and still have time to do all those time-bound mitzvos? I firmly believe that women are completely different than men and that therefore our תפקידים are different, yet why can’t we have all the mitzvos and still have separate jobs?
I had thought of these questions on the night of my younger brother’s bar mitzva when I saw how he matured and grew up in one night. He accepted the עול מצוות then and it was evident in the way he dressed and acted and said his p’shetel, etc etc. Afterwards, I ran to my room and burst out into tears. Why can’t I have that? Why am I not זוכה to be able to accept the mitzvos upon myself in such a way?
And this leads to my second: Is all this part of the curse of חוה, included in ואל אישך תשוקתך והוא ימשל בך-that men will also lord over the women with more mitzvos, or is that a completely separate topic? Am I feeling the curse every time I’m jealous of the men’s bigger responsibilities? Am I feeling the curse every time I wish I could have more mitzvos? Are all my feelings of insignificance part of it too? Or is it all coming from the wrong hashkafos? Is it “קנאת סופרים” or is it plain jealousy? Is it just something I should accept as is or is there an answer?People may argue with me that I’m a feminist but I’m the farthest from being one, so I would appreciate answers that address my questions and not me as a person.
Thank you very muchYour questions are deep and thought-provoking. The true answer is quite simple.
There are seven מצוות עשה שהזמן גרמא:
ראייה, סוכה, לולב, שופר, ציצית, קריאת שמע, תפילין.
These seven מצוות are symbolic in nature, and are intended to remind the עושה המצווה of certain עיקרים, or principles, that a Jew must keep in mind throughout his life.
Men need to perform a physical action from time to time to remind them of these principles, because their mind is so preoccupied with the responsibilities and worries of making a living, providing for themselves and their family, defending their tribe against foreign invaders, and so on, that they are prone to forget such basic concepts as ייחוד ה׳, עול מצוות, השגחה, יציאת מצרים, and so on. So הקב״ה commanded them: At the very least make sure to perform certain actions at certain times to remind you of these עיקרים so you don’t totally forget Me.
Women, on the other hand, are given responsibilities which – הקב״ה knows – won’t hinder them from always keeping these principles in mind, so they don’t need these periodical reminders. Obviously, if a woman so pleases, she is free to give herself these reminders as well, by performing the מצוות עשה שהזמן גרמא, and if she does, all the better.
As to your second question:
The main curse given to האשה, was that she would always feel inferior to the איש, even though she bears a more noble task and a more awesome responsibility than the man.
בעצב can be translated “with sadness”.
בעצב – with sadness, תלדי בנים – will you perform the most noble task in the world, the task of giving forth and nurturing life. Why the sadness? Because,
ואל אישך תשוקתך – You will seek always to be like the איש, not appreciating the value that you bring to the world. And as a result of this feeling of inferiority, והוא ימשל בך.
So yes, you are feeling the curse, but the curse is the false perception of inferiority. When you begin to appreciate the value and gift of womanhood, and when you begin to understand that your responsibilities are no less than your brother’s, you won’t feel any curse. You’ll feel blessed.
SBYG:
Sorry to hear of your pain. May the new year ahead, and even sooner, bring you much joy and kol tuv.
I would suggest discussing this with real daas Torah who doesn’t necessarily know you, so you can BE”H get a real answer. Meanwhile, for whatever little this is worth:I think your question is a very fair one, but the answer would likely be that women are holier by nature, and therefore they don’t need those additional mitzvos including learning Torah as do men, and therefore they can raise children and all that even without needing those extra mitzvos. Consider: why would Hashem set up the world that the women raise the children, if women do not have those Torah and mitzvos that only men have, which would mean that, according to what you understood from what you were taught, children will be raised in a highly deficient way? The answer is seemingly that women don’t need those mitzvos, not that Hashem merely exempted women from them because women are so busy. Also, if women did need them, then Hashem would definitely have figured out a way, as you asked, even though they have children to raise. Of course, He would not “short-change” a woman just because she has a job to do! But women obviously do not need them.
A woman is the akeres haBayis, the one who not only raises the children but also helps the husband progress in his avodas Hashem. And she can accomplish all that even without a chiyuv talmid Torah which is a man’s job to do day and night! A woman, therefore, is obviously on a much different level than a man, not just that she happens to have a different job than does a man. That takes tremendous kedusha, something which a man achieves via learning Torah and doing mitzvos, and which a woman seems to achieve with just the mitzvos that Hashem requires of her as a woman
Regarding accepting mitzvos upon yourself like your brother, you’re still making the same commitment to Hashem to follow His ways and do what He wants you to do; your job happens to be different because you are on a different level, as mentioned, even though his commitment is necessarily more demanding. But you both get to the same place; you just start higher. Chazal say, for example, that “Eishes chaveir kiChaveir”. It doesn’t say that she’s a good assistant to him or that she did her job well; it says that she is considered to be like him. That means that the wife of the Vilna Gaon was considered to be like him even though she didn’t learn 24/7 and didn’t come up with all the Torah that he did, etc.
It does not seem that the curse of Chava has anything to do with the above. Notice that it doesn’t say vehu “yisGadeil” or “yisRomeim” Mimeich. It says yimshol. That’s very, very different.
I hope nobody is silly enough to label you a feminist just because you’re asking a very reasonable question (even if my humble answer is not the answer). I would also add that as you grow more and especially once you marry a ben aliyah, the above should become much clearer to you as you live and experience it, BE”H.
Best is to ask a Rav (don’t worry they don’t bite) over some random CR poster that might be talking out of his you know where
What does maturing in one night have to do with being a man, girls are more mature than men (as evidenced that girls become בת מצוה at 12)?
To answer your question (in my humble opinion) is that women are supposed to be btznius (כל כבודה) you always hear people call their daughters “princess” I rarely hear a son being called “prince”
Another reason I was thinking is I don’t think you would want to wake up for an 8 am slichos after staying up until 2 am cooking for Yom tov 😂
First of all, I think there are probably better addresses to bring your questions to than this forum, where you’d find higher quality responses, which you deserve to hear.
That said, I will take a stab at it, because I wonder if your interest goes beyond just time bound mitzvos, as yr second question is leading there…
The first question induces a corollary question – if women are exempt from time-bound mitzvos because they need to care for children, why would girls or women who aren’t mothers of children be included? Perhaps a more nuanced reflection on women and their nature is implied.
If you acknowledge that women and men are – ba’gadol – different (acknowledging that all women have some “masculine” energies and vice versa), that is still within a large spectrum of difference. We all know women who are more logical and analytical, and could probably learn gemara better than some men, but the reality is that most women do not relish a purely abstract mental avodah – if it’s not tied to SOMETHING, it is just annoying. Men, in general, have a much greater tolerance for the ungrounded pure pilpul that is necessary for real gemara learning. (No question that some men have a greater need for “bringing it down” than others – but for real Talmud Torah, the machshava requires a lot of purely theoretical shteiging. )
Al pi Torah hashkafa, the superpower of women is to take the input from the mashpia, and bring it down into the world of Asiya – not just in the physical realm, but even in the realm of thought – women can smell the implications for a certain line of thinking in terms of chinuch or social endeavors much quicker than men – in general. (No way to have this discussion without some generalizing, so just will say it once and assume that every generalization has its exception.)
As a woman who happens to have a pretty strong analytical capacity (got 95% on my LSATs), I see how empowering this superpower is – consider the verses of Ayshes Chayil – that is my vision for Jewish femininity – and I see why time bound mitzvos would tie down and inhibit my impact.
(A good question you should ask is why do men need time-bound mitzvos? Lots of hashkafa on that topic, but the obvious implication is that the same koach to go all analytical requires these anchors to stay firmly attached to the ground.)
Forgive me if I read between the lines something you aren’t saying, and that might not be there, but it seems that you are equating the external role of these mitzvos and the way we, as a society, relate to them, as being somehow more “choshuv” than what women are doing.
By definition, a girl who is bas mitzvaed, should have the same hargasha that she has entered a new level, and feel the gravitas of that new stage. But socially – depending on what community you are in – the celebration of this new level may be very minimized, and that is perhaps too bad for some girls, like yourself that feel “less than” because of it.
But even bar mitzva celebrations for boys are totally different between communities, and in some communities, it’s not the big extravaganza that it is in others. So you have to distinguish Torah hashkafa from the hanhagos of different communities.
Know that within your role as a young woman, you can achieve tremendous accomplishments in your avodas H’ and become an “Isha chashuva” , even without the time-bound mitzvos.
Although if there is something specific you’d like to do, ask a rav — there are many women that have taken upon themselves mitzvos like davening maariv or shaking lulav and esrog to enhance their avoda. Certainly there we all have to “personalize” our avodas H’, if we want to be the best Jews we can be. No one can really just rely on what everyone else is doing if they want to actualize their full potential.
You sound like a thoughtful person with big kochos – and you may have some needs that lie outside the typical, but you still wholesome and Torah-true ways to fulfill them. Don’t give up on asking questions and searching for emesdich answers!
Two good sources on feminine vs masculine roles are the book by Miriam Kosman, Circle, Arrow, Spiral, and the classes of Tamar Tabak online. Both ladies have done their research and offer many sources you may find encouraging to appreciate your role as a Jewish woman. Hatzlacha and a sweet year to you!
I wish you did ask a rav this question only because you would have gotten a way better answer. I’m just a regular mom but I’ll answer what I think and from what I hear. Hashem made women according to His will. That’s why we say “she’asa li kol sarki” (sorry don’t have Hebrew text on my keyboard)
Men need to do all those mitzvot to perfect themselves, we are already “perfect.”
A lady has to know every time we are cooking, cleaning, changing a diaper we are doing what Hashem wants, that IS holy work. It doesn’t seem like it is but it IS! It’s like we are working in the beit hamikdash, bringing a korban. The kohanim were busy all the time with korbanot we are busy all the time will cooking, and cleaning. Even if you are not married yet you do the mitzvot the best you can and wish happiness and there is nothing greater. You are doing what Hashem wants.
I think you just have to change your mind set to see it that way and you would not be “jealous” at all. Hashem made the world exactly how it should be He doesn’t need men and women doing the exact same thing. We each have our own rolls.
I hope that made sense. And I hope you have a healthy happy new year with menuchat hanefesh and menuchat haguf. There is nothing greater then feeling content and happiness in your every day life. I wish you and all of am yisrael that.“why can’t we have all the mitzvos and still have separate jobs?”
Kohanim and Leviim (even b’chors and other categories) have different Mitzvos than others. There’s no reason why men and women shouldn’t, also, have different Mitzvos.
Yisroelim shouldn’t be saddened over the fact that they don’t have the same greater responsibilities and Mitzvos as Kohanim, and women shouldn’t be saddened over the fact that they don’t have the same greater responsibilities and Mitzvos as men.
I will add a side point in that I believe the fact that this bothered you, more than a Yisroel is bothered that a Kohain has greater responsibilities, obligations, Mitzvos and receives more Kovod (honors) than himself, is primarily due to the negative influences on the world (over the last 100 or so years) from the terrible feminist/women’s liberation movement. It affects people without realizing it, even those who think they’ve been immune to it.
Dear Shtark Bais Yaakov Girl,
Not everyone has the same מצוות.
Just as men and women have different מצוות,
Leviim have different מצוות than Yisraelim,
and Kohanim have different מצוות than Leviim.Kings have different מצוות than commoners.
Some מצוות only apply to a prophet [Navi].Some מצוות only apply in Eretz Yisrael.
Some מצוות only apply every 7 years or every 49 years.
Some מצוות only apply during the day or night.Some מצוות only apply on specific days of the year;
Shofar is only on Rosh HaShanah.
Fasting is only on Yom Kippur [and a few other days].To what can this be compared?
Soldiers who fight on dry land have different orders than sailors who fight at sea.
Members of the Air Force have different orders than sailors.
Spies who collect information about enemy soldiers have different orders than sailors.
Some members of the military spend all their days working
to decipher the secret codes of the enemy army,
so they can understand what the enemy army plans to do;
they also have different orders, and their work
may be done very far away from the fighting.Even within the Army, some soldiers specialize in making food for other soldiers,
or specialize in distributing supplies, such as: uniforms, shoes, blankets, and soap.
The Army also has Doctors and Nurses and surgeons, who do not fight.I hope this helps you.
I wish you only good decrees on Rosh HaShanah
and a very easy fast on Yom Kippur.Sincerely,
SQUARE_ROOTi would say, a girl definitely could and should be Mekabel ol Mitzvos by her Bas Mitzvah…
only really a handful of Mitzvos that a woman is not chayiv in, but regardless, she is being Mekabel what she has.
I read an article somewhere about a ben yochid being very resentful. He has to get up Shabbos and Y”T to go daven while his sisters sleep in, he has to get up early for slichos, he has to get up 5:30 every day to go to yeshiva and comes home very late at night while his sisters wake up two hours laters and come home much earlier from school, etc.. B’kitzur, he’s resentful for having to work harder. And yet I’m sure he’s not interested in doing laundry and cooking and doing all other “baal habustishe” stuff.
So basically what I’m saying, as a woman who is more intellectually inclined and hates cooking, cleaning and doing repetitive, humdrum housework, that it’s is a package deal. I promise you, want do not want to be a man.
Don’t worry about your husband “lording” over you. I vintch you you should find a husband who is a yirei shomayim and baal middos, and if you have good middos as well you’ll build a happy, peaceful home together without him “lording” over you. Yes, you will follow his minhugim and he’ll have the last word which moisdos your sons will attend, but “lording” over you is definitely not something you need to worry about. It also says a woman should be an ezer K’NEGDO, the woman should help the man by being against him when he wants to do something wrong. That does not mean you will be busy fighting him just as he will not be “lording” over you.
I do not think you have kinas sofrim. In this day and age people suffer from not appreciating the tremendous gifts that Hashem gave us and wanting things they can’t have. This brings depression and jealousy which are both aveiros (i know today depression is classified as a mental health issue but its an aveirah-people get in that headspace because they dont appreciate what Hashem gives them). Being who you are is a gift. You have tremendous koichos in you and you can only reach your potential by being the best who you are. You can serve Hashem perfectly well by being a woman. If you are intellectually inclined, learn sefarim, you don’t have to bake cakes. (But you do have to cook supper, clean and do the laundry when you get married or even now if your mother needs your help… ) Life is a balance between our personalities and our duties which can be conflicting. But Hashem does not make mistakes. He made you the way you are and that means that you need to serve Him in the capacity of being you. Whoever you are is a gift, your strength and weaknesses are gifts, your personality is a gift, your body is a gift. Hashem gave you have so many gifts. What will bring you happiness is serving Him the way He wants you to serve Him.
As you see, these are really good questions. I’ll let others deal with lofty issues, here are some observations.
First problem I see is that you feel it difficult to ask these questions. This is something that you should be able to talk about with your family/friends/school on a regular basis, not just in a “crisis mode” looking for excuses. So, think how to change your environment and relationship to achieve that.
One answer I heard from a Rav, who is a Cohen. A feminist lady approached him stating that “you can’t imagine how I feel when being on the other side of the mehitza”. He said – I can, when I was not able to attend the funeral of my beloved stepfather (as a Cohen). .. The point is that there are a lot of differences between different people and lots of mitzvos correspond to circumstances. I am still fuming that I still was not able to pick up a captured woman during a war.
Mitzvos that women have are way enough to fill your whole day doing – and learning how to do them well. Teaching children, making family a place of kedusha and many others will take years to learn how to do properly. In general, mitzvos bein adam l’havero are more complicated as they depend on the person – you talk differently to different people, so getting a PhD in psychology would be a good first step…
Re: men lording over women. Not sure what is going on in your house, you are welcome to stop by mine to disabuse yourself of this notion. Anyway, finishing writing, wife just called to throw the garbage away. Hinei I am accepting upon myself this mitzva of havata raeha kmoha.
The Tosfas Rosh Hashanah 33. discusses in great detail that being exempt does not mean that women don’t have a mitzva when they do it so they can make a bracha on it as the men are responsible. In a situation where everyone is exempt would be different.
First: only a honest and joyful mitzvot is a REAL mizvot. Everything robotlike does not mean anything.
Second: jealousy is a conequence from חוה, its only an physical appereance, that shows that this a loveless spot in you body.
In Thora these things went up to G-d through sacrifice as a unpleasant odour. But now there priest and sacrifices do not exist. Well, well.OP:
For the most part, you can still do those mitzvos even without being chayev in them. You worded it as if you have a kasheh on the halachah, but if you think more about it, your problem might be with socio-cultural norms that prevent women from doing these mitzvos.UJM:
“primarily due to the negative influences on the world (over the last 100 or so years) from the terrible feminist/women’s liberation movement. It affects people without realizing it, even those who think they’ve been immune to it.”Yes, but this goes both ways. The Mishnah Berurah says we should be choshesh for the Ramban and have women daven shachris and mincha, yet now it’s stigmatized more due to overreaction to feminism.
Are you comfortable asking your mother? grandmother? Or your father? Perhaps not, but if you are, that would be a good place to start, especially considering that for your question, minhag is also relevant.
You should also talk to a Rav that you respect.
You are, indeed, a very shtark woman and what you feel is a struggle is indeed a sign of that. Wishing you shana tova u metuka.@SBYG,
Very thoughtful questions! I think you might find the following website very refreshing and valuable. It is specifically geared towards addressing questions revolving around women’s place in Torah/halacha/hashkafa and is willing to really tackle the questions in-depth with many mekoros. https://www.deracheha.org/
Here’s an article specifically re your questions: https://www.deracheha.org/positive-time-bound-mitzvot/
The husband is the “Baal”. AAQ, check the translation.
philosopher > you will follow his minhugim and he’ll have the last word which moisdos your sons will attend,
shtark> literal definition of ימשל is to lordWhile there is a notion that a man should follow his wife on the issues of gashmiyus and lead on ruchniyus, it does not mean that someone is having a “last word” on school selection, it is usually a mutual decision based on a lot of considerations. Just based on stereotypes, the husband might naturally know more about the derech of the mosdos, but the mother might know more about what really goes on inside based on talking to other mothers; might have better insight in the nature of the children and how they’ll be affected; and better intuition on how to evaluate personalities of teachers and principals. And, as mentioned above, stereotypes are not always true. Hopefully, both sides will bring all their info for mutual discussion.
As to leading, I once was zoche to be present at a summer retreat where a choshuve very traditional rav was giving a shiur sitting at the head of the outside table to several students, sitting on both sides. Rebbetzin was sitting at the end of the table, reading what looked like a paperback novel. At some point, Rav stopped speaking, search for a right word…. Rebbetzin lowered the novel, mouthed the word, Rav looked at her, and continued the shiur. Nobody noticed that, of course – I just happened to be coming from a side and seeing the whole scene.
Despite some predictions, many of the answers you have already received are as good as any Rov will give you.
I would just like to add a point that has not yet been mentioned.
Before Matan Toirah, no one kept mitzvos asseh in the format that we do today, but chazal still state that the Ovois, for example, kept the entire Toirah. Many resolve this apparent contradiction through a simple concept mentioned in the Zohar, that their mundane actions were accompanied by lofty meditations that encompassed those mitzvos asseh.
Matan Toirah changed that for the men. One reason is that their reception of Moishe Rabbeinu’s appearance in Mitzrayim was rather lukewarm, whereas the women were all positive. Yetzias Mitzrayim was on account of the attitude of the women. The women did not allow themselves to get involved with the eigel. In general therefore, women are in less need than men for specific rectifications sympolised by these mitzvos. Therefore women today have a similar avoidah to the Ovois (and Imahois). A woman can achieve the same if not more by thinking about spiritual ideas whilst doing mundane tasks than men can do through the rituals that you so desire to perform. Women may also perform many of them if they wish as well – the best of both worlds!
A very clever woman who had returned to Orthodox Judaism one remarked to me: No wonder male baalei teshuvah find life so hard. Look at an average weekday minyan. Women on the other hand can take as long as they wish over their prayers, and put their whole heart into it.
Of course the same can be said of every Jewish man, only she didn’t know it, because everyone pretends that he’s OK.
Believe me, you’ve got nothing to be envious of.
I would like to suggest an answer, as a mother and grandmother of both boys and girls. A young men takes on most mitzvas at the time of his bar-mitzvah. For a girl/woman, we are responsible for the most important mitzvas at the time that we marry and start a family. Just think how a kalla at her wedding is the ‘star’ of the occasion.
Always, it certainly is ideal if the the moidos children attend is the result of a mutual decision made by both parents. However, let’s say a husband is adamant that his son attend a certain cheder or yeshiva due to it being the closest to his derech, or it being the cheder or yeshiva of his chassidus, unless the moised is dysfunctional or a very not good fit for their child, I don’t think the wife has a right to contradict her husband in that regard.
All of the above are excellent responses to your very thoughtful questions.
I learned what I think is a wonderful reason as to why women are exempt from מצוות עשה שהזמן גרמא while men are obligated. It is because we women have our own INTERNAL clock reminding us of the time. Men are lacking an internal clock, so they have to do these EXTERNAL מצוות to remind them.
Women DO have a time of growing and maturing. It is done internally, within ourselves. Men need the external trappings, while women don’t. That is the idea of כל כבודה בת מלך פנימה.
I had the same questions you have when I was growing up, along with many others. It took me years to find answers that satisfied me, and I still have other questions. Just keep asking and searching for your answers and eventually you will find them. And if not, save them. When I was a child, on the advice of my father OB”M, I kept a notebook in which I wrote all my questions so I could ask משיח when he comes.
גמר חתימה טובה!
The Kol Bo says that women’s first responsibility Is to her family over doing time dependent mitzvos.
I’m not following the whole thread here; just had to comment on Always Act Qrazy’s latest stupidity. This is at least the third time on this forum he shared that revolutionary anecdote that a mainstream Rav’s Rebbitzen assisted him with finding the right word. This, he totes always as some sort of overblown proof of something more ridiculous each time. This time, that this Rebbitzen “lead”.
One doesn’t watch the Special Olympics and say “wow, I could do that! i could play that game and even excel in it! why in the world don’t i have the right to play the events of that Special Olympics?!”
You are intrinsically holier than the men. The men need the focus.
I suggest you read (Rebitzen) Miriam Kosman’s books on the subject, or you can read the other texts she recommends.
חוה was created to be a עזר even before she ate from the tree
The question is from a feminist out look on life where people see themselves as the individual instead of part of a family unit, where everyone does their own partfarrockgrandma> A young men takes on most mitzvas at the time of his bar-mitzvah. For a girl/woman, we are responsible for the most important mitzvas at the time that we marry and start a family.
I would hope that the lady would spend previous years preparing for that great mission whether by being a sidekick to her mother or babysitting or/and actually learning. After a child is born, it becomes a little hectic to learn …
I also noticed that men tend to delegate sholom bayis to their wives, even if a lot of gemoras direct their instructions to men.
I once offered a chatan a book about sholom bayis (that I thought he needed). His immediate reaction was “I am sure my kallah has such books”.philosopher > Let’s say a husband is adamant that his son attend a certain cheder
A nowadays (avoiding the loaded term “modern”) wife would surely know how to present her position and in any normal family, the decision would be mutual, with each side appreciating the arguments of the other. As I mentioned, the women are pretty likely to be in the loop. Just compare specificity of imamother replies with the blabber at this site :). If parents are not able to come to a joint opinion, they would be better off asking for an advice or a shailah to figure out how to have a joint opinion on important issues.
חוה was created as an עזר for אדם even before she ate from the tree.
Also the question is based on the modern feminist way of thinking as yourself as an individual instead of as one part of a family unit where everyone in the family does their part. Like a soldier in an army every one does their own job so the army as a whole can win the war.
We can’t really know why Hashem didn’t set up a different system for us. Just we believe that this must be the best system. And we can look at the system thats here and see how to best use it instead of wasting time trying to dream up better systems we would have made if we were given a choice.Always, sorry I don’t agree. If there’s nothing wrong with a moisdos that the husband wants to send his son to, it’s just ideological differences for something else the wife doesn’t like about her husband’s choice, then the husband has the right to have the last word. When people marry they know (or should know) the hashkafah and leanings of the person they are marrying. Usually the type of moisdos a person sends their children to goes accordingly with their hashkofos or where they belong. If you choose to marry someone you can’t fight the choices that automatically go along with it.
Why did Hashem make this world the way it is & not some other way? That is the outline of this question.
The answer: This fantasy question has no relevance to your life. We are totally underequipped to start contemplating a better way for the world to have been created. Hashem created it exactly how he chose to with his infinite wisdom for a specific end goal, and this is what he decided would accomplish his objective.Our job in life is to figure out how to make our lives as meaningful as possible to bring about the goal Hashem has for us in his creation, that’s all it is.
We need to ignore meaningless questions about how life could have been in some other cosmic sphere & instead embrace reality as it is & make the most of it. People who are prone to obsessive thoughts can get hooked on these circular questions for months at a time with no satisfying answer ever reached.
Being stuck with this question can be excruciatingly painful as it swirls around your mind & fools you to take it seriously. Ignore these types of questions & start living purposefully, the questions will hopefully go away on their own.philosopher > When people marry they know (or should know) the hashkafah and leanings of the person they are marrying.
Exactly. So, this means that in most cases, there will be no serious disagreement
> . If you choose to marry someone you can’t fight the choices that automatically go along with it.
Same, so we agree here. I would only take an issue with the word “fight”. I would suggest a discussion and some research first. You kind of imply that both partners have their entrenched positions and it will be unbecoming of a litvishe mama to try influence her hasid husband… I think we are (unfortunately?) beyond having fights between two clear paths nowadays – we have tens of choices everywhere, starting with amazon shopping, and we get same in chinuch. So, a lot of research might be required to make the right decision and having two adults approaching it together would be beneficial for the kids.
I think I brought this story before, I think it serves as a good illustration. R Chaim Soloveichik’s son Moshe was Rav of the town in a chabad-majority town, and he hired a chabad tutor for his son, future R YB. RYBS fondly recalled later in life (in a letter to a chabad T’Ch who sent his book for a haskomah) about nigunim, stories, shabbos atmosphere, and Alter Rebbe portrait looking at him … At some point, the MOTHER quizzed the kid and discovered that he learns stories instead of Gemora and advised the FATHER, who became RYBS only teacher (AKA homeschooling). Later on, he learnt with R Chaim Ozer in Vilna, including when visiting from his university studies in Berlin. How is that for the mother’s role.
I would add also a woman should find fulfillment in her husband/ family accomplishments. Feminism and the many years that a girl is single together with the academic culture make this much harder. People need to see themselves as part of their family instead of as individuals. This is one of the reasons it used to make sense to people that only the head of the house hold votes instead of both the husband and the wife.
Haimy, very well said.
I would like to add that I think these types of questions are the works of the yetzer hora. It is a way for the yetzer hora to prevent a person from serving Hashem properly.
OP “I’ve been struggling immensely with Yiddishkeit, but with the help of Hashem and my parents, I did not go completely off.”
I reiterate my original answer. Some questions in life don’t have fully satisfying answers. We aren’t privy to many of the mysteries of creation & how a loving G-d allows so much evil to exist in his world. When the seforim give answers to such questions, it’s only a small consolation to the questioning mind.
There’s so much more we will never understand in our current golus state.However, there are individuals (like myself) that always want to get to the bottom of things & really understand our world. When you get one semi satisfying answer, a new question pops up, in an endless cycle of questioning & answering.
The downside to this is that after a while, you feel completely exasperated by the lack of clarity! Nothing seems to make sense anymore & there’s nobody that has the answers. Your Yiddishkeit begins suffering because how can you feel positivity in Avodas Hashem with so much uncertainty plaguing you?
Some people went completely off the derech because of this obsession to find the elusive truth & couldn’t.The true answer to Why Hashem made the world one way & not the other is that he alone knows why. Theoretically, Hashem could have decided to make it any way he wanted to & get the result he wanted. He’s unlimited in his power & control.
Let’s trust him for the way he made it, let’s trust that this crazy world makes perfect sense because he’s in full control.
Asking Hashkafah questions is very important! Questions like why an I here? What’s my Avodah supposed to be, today in my circumstance? How do I balance all my obligations in life as a Yid? Excellent questions!
Questions like, Why was I born a Yisroel & not a Kohein? Why couldn’t Hshem create me in a way that obligates me in more Mitzvos? Irrelevant & distrusting of Hashem. I’m here to serve in Hashem’s army, whichever division he put me! Put on your army uniform & start marching to the beat! It makes no difference at all that others were given more prestigious positions (at least externally) than me! We are all part of the same army marching for Kovod Shomayim!Shtark girl, questions are always important to ask even if the answers are clear-cut.
You can’t have a mother putting on teffilin while the baby is crying, you can’t cook dinner and leave little kids at home while running out to shul to daven. Even though you are still a girl I’m sure you understand why it wouldn’t work for women to have mitzvas that are time-bound. I’m sure when you’ll be older you’ll understand it even better. Hashem created this world and in His infinite wisdom gave the different mitzvos to men and women in the capacity that they can fulfill. The answer why women werent commanded to do timebound mitzvos is clear.
Part of asking questions is gaining an understanding where the questions stem from. Questions that make a person feel bitter that they can’t have something that’s not for them stems from the yetzer hora. We all have a yetzer hora, as long as we live we should be growing into better people so there’s nothing wrong in exploring why we feel the way we do. But the fact is that if we get stuck with the mindset of why we can’t have things the way we think it should be then we can never be happy. Accepting and appreciating the way Hashem has created us and what He has given us is the #1 key to happiness.
I don’t think I would be able to help you, because I technically have the same questions. But I want to make you aware of several things.
#1 answers like women are busy at home or are holier are apologetics. For the following reasons: a) women don’t have a chiyuv to have children and or to raise them. This includes taking care of them. B) Literally no reason why you can’t shake lulav after washing dishes etc. meaning it’s not a contradiction. Traditionally men worked long hours in the fields and they were expected to find time. C) regarding women being holier, if women are holier, why not enhance their spiritual opportunities? Wouldn’t it lead to a greater spiritual output?
#2 regarding more mitzvos: a) the concept of getting more schar for a chiyuv was taken out of context. They don’t get schar for being male, or being given the mitzvos, because they never did anything for that. It’s from Hashem. It’s like saying Hashem gave you curly hair and then gave you schar for curly hair. What they were trying to say is that people who have a chiyuv have a burden, and they get schar for the burden. Humans get schar for putting in effort. And effort does not depend on gender.
This became a problem in our community because at this point women don’t only not have a chiyuv. We are (in many cases) actively discouraged from engaging spiritually. It could have been that we don’t have a chiyuv but we have the same spiritual opportunities nonetheless. For example on Yom Kippur only men have a chiyuv to daven. Many women want to daven though, but are told they can’t because their husband has a chiyuv. Catch- they don’t have a chiyuv to stay home for their husband. There is no reason why we can’t set up earlier and shorter minyan so both husband and wife can alternate davening any taking care of the kids. Our community has a sexist problem and you will not find an answer, because there is none.
The best thing I can tell you is that the sexist issues were man made. It does NOT come from Hashem and it’s wrong. Hashem wants women to do more mitzvos and be included. Hashem wanted chezkiyahu Hamelech to be mashiach because in his time every Man, WOMAN, and child knew the most complicated Halachos. And the ONLT source of Halacha at the time was the Mishnah.
#3 regarding chavas curse: a) the curses were not left up to either men or women to enforce. It wasn’t defined by rules. The curse most likely was that women were severely dependent on men, creating a power imbalance. IMO ancient woman’s lack of agency and independent is probably the real reason for the not being mechuyav in all mitzvos. Just like that is the reason why slaves have the same exemption. B) I guarantee you any person that stands in the way of women building their own independence and degrades women is wrong. Chaya’s curse wasn’t a license for men to oppress.
Additionally, people who are frustrated that women want to engage in more mitzvos, and don’t make that available for women don’t realize that what will happen next is that women will be severely disinterested in all mitzvos. And that will have sever consequences for our community.
Stay strong, Hashem loves you
Chassidish-theorist, your comments are ridiculous. Shaking a lulav and esrog does not encompass 5% of time-bound mitzvos men are required to do. Between having a shuir or two (for working men) and going to daven every single day three times a day that alone is impossible for mothers to do (unless you have a built in babysitter).
No, women are not required to get married or have children. That doesn’t mean that Hashem didn’t establish the world with the idea that women do so. He gave for the majority of women the capabilities to have children for a reason. And he did not give women time-bound mitzvos for that same reason.
No is preventing you from going to daven in shul on Yom kippur. No, men do not have to change, nor should they change, what they are mechiyev to do to accommodate you and that includes “not making a shorter minyan” so that you and other angry women can go daven in shul when it fits their schedule.
If you want a “more spiritual life”, no one forcing you to have to you to have kids which will hamper you from having a “more spiritual life”. Or if you already have a family, no one forced you to have kids so that “unfortunately ” you now have to watch them and can’t run out to shul… how tragic…
Hashem is the One who decided who is mechiav to do what but women like you who are angry that they “can’t be more spiritual” by doing what the men are, well you know what, that is not a “spiritual path” that is the path of destruction because Hashem does not want you to do what men are doing. There are plenty of opportunities to grow spiritually for women without being angry that they are “deprived” of opportunities to do what men do.
אני מאמין באמונה שלימה שכל התורה המצויה עתה בידינו היא הנתונה למשה רבינו עליו השלום
I agree with Heimy, but not completely. I believe that none of the important questions in life have satisfying answers, even though sometimes we delude ourselves into believing so.
This last point by chassidish theorist is so true, for multiple reasons:
1) Ask around the right way and you’ll find that there is a very large contingent of frum women who just don’t believe any longer. They go through the motions, but they were disenfranchised so they no longer care.
2) Women, in practice, learn better than men when given a chance. Compare your average 17-22 year old women’s knowledge of Halacha to your average man of the same age. It’s shameful that the girl will be able to run circles around the boy. And it’s not just because focus isn’t put on Halacha in boy’s Yeshivas. both genders learn Chumash and what the females learn is miles ahead of the boys. I love hocking in learning with my more modern female cousins because they have a tremendous clarity and desire to know, which I see less by men, who are mostly learning the maarei mekomos their magid shiur put up. Once they get married they get shunted off into the mommy role so they don’t have as much opportunity, but if they would, they would be the top kollelim.
I think we should be teaching gemara to girls. No reason not to. In the 100 years of organized women’s learning, they have shown that they are a benefit, not a liability. It is currently just a system trying to protect mediocre men that is blocking it now.
“#1 answers like women are busy at home or are holier are apologetics.”
I’m glad someone had the guts to say this. These “women are holier” drashos are relatively recent and very cringeworthy.
Also, the “you should be glad you aren’t burdened” is absolute nonsense. Any man who actually believes that is making a bracha l’vatalah every time he says “shelo asani isha.” We are happy to have the chiyuvs; if you’re not, you have to introspection to do.
I think it seems like the OP has heard these transparently phony answers in the past and was looking for something different.
Several comments, not necessarily answers to your questions:
1) time-related notion is not a definite rule, it is an asmachta. There are more exception than the rules. People make philosophical conclusions from that, but this is not a neduaraita.
2) halakha has assumptions on women’s social behavior but then treats them with respect when they are in a different position. For example, a lot of halochos around ketuba presume that the woman is dependent on her husband and establishes rules that are fair to both. At the same time, when a woman has property (usual presumption – from the father), then her rights are protected. If she is in business (II did not learn this, but heard from a dayan) – if she has a business dispute, she is not supposed to come to beis din, but beis din comes to her.
3) I presume same applies to learning. Yes, R Eliezer says teaching daughters Torah is teaching them shtus. Now, it is “not learning gemora”. But this is about a social policy – making all little girls into a beis midrash. A particular individual lady who wants or did learn something deserves respect, as it is (mostly) shown here.
4) Read the viduy – how much of it is about men-specific mitzvos? Probably, none. We are all guilty of over-valuing public demonstration of “frumkeit” over decent human behavior, chesed, etc. This is not a new thing, see neviim talking about bringing karbonos while mistreating people, but nowadays are also a response to anti-religious movements, as “frumkeit” demonstrated how we are different from the “apikoirisim”. So, while men are competing who will have a more expensive esrog, women have a whole field to themselves to practice (and learn!) about chesed, raising children, ehrlichkeit – and hopefully transmit that to their husbands and children.
Skripa, you write :
“1) Ask around the right way and you’ll find that there is a very large contingent of frum women who just don’t believe any longer. They go through the motions, but they were disenfranchised so they no longer care.”
They are disenfranchised because they are immersed in the social media secular culture, not because they can’t do what men do. These disenfranchised women should first do what they are mechayiav to do before wanting supposedly to “grow spiritually by doing what the men do”. These disenfranchised women are not following their chiyuv to dress modestly, they wear zonah length wigs, tight clothing that shows their womenly bumps on all sides, oftentimes don’t wear stockings, wear short skirts, etc, they look like sluts, they can’t do one mitzva they are mechiyev in and yet they cry crocodile tears that they can’t do what the men are doing…im sure they want to daven in shul three times a day…not!“2) Women, in practice, learn better than men when given a chance. Compare your average 17-22 year old women’s knowledge of Halacha to your average man of the same age. It’s shameful that the girl will be able to run circles around the boy. And it’s not just because focus isn’t put on Halacha in boy’s Yeshivas. both genders learn Chumash and what the females learn is miles ahead of the boys. I love hocking in learning with my more modern female cousins because they have a tremendous clarity and desire to know, which I see less by men, who are mostly learning the maarei mekomos their magid shiur put up. Once they get married they get shunted off into the mommy role so they don’t have as much opportunity, but if they would, they would be the top kollelim.
I think we should be teaching gemara to girls. No reason not to. In the 100 years of organized women’s learning, they have shown that they are a benefit, not a liability. It is currently just a system trying to protect mediocre men that is blocking it now.”
Women are not smarter than men and vice versa. There are men who learn well and women who learn well. There are men who don’t understand Gemorah well and there are women who don’t understand gemorah well. One gender is not smarter than the other and vice versa.
You love hocking with your more modern female cousins. If they can hock in gemorah why are they modern (modern means they are more into secular culture). Absolutely women should not learn Gemorah in school or sem. You can learn on your own if you enjoy it so much. Hocking gemorah does not make a woman a yiras shomayim which is what we should strive for, not “equality”.
Hashem who created us with gender roles and you, with your modern thinking, are trying to confuse the roles which we are mechiyev to live with. The secular world has done that with tragic results. That’s why you have males and females in the secular world actually mutilating their bodies for life because they are so confused, they do not understand that they have different roles in life that they were created for. You think that you’re so smart that you can learn gemorah but you are being incredibly stupid in grand scheme of life. Our purpose in this world is to do what what we were created to do.
“Blessed are you, Lord our G-d, King of the universe, for having made me according to His will.”
the answer that number 2321265# is answering is a answer what Reb Moshe Finshtein gives in his tshuva in Igres Moshe
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings so openly. Your questions are deep and resonate with many in the frum community. Let’s break down your concerns:
Women and Time-Bound Mitzvos: You’re right that traditionally, women are exempt from time-bound mitzvos, and a common explanation is that their primary role is to manage the home and care for children. However, this can feel limiting, especially when you observe how your brother embraced his responsibilities.
One perspective is that the mitzvos women do engage in—such as maintaining the home, nurturing family, and ensuring a Jewish environment—are immensely valuable and carry their own spiritual weight. The idea is not about a hierarchy but rather about different roles contributing uniquely to the spiritual fabric of the family and community.
It’s also important to note that many women find ways to incorporate time-bound mitzvos into their lives, whether through flexible practices or community initiatives. The key is to explore how you can fulfill your spiritual aspirations within your circumstances.
The Curse of Chavah and Jealousy: The idea of the curse of Chavah does bring up valid feelings of insignificance when comparing responsibilities. It’s natural to feel a sense of yearning for greater engagement with mitzvos, especially when you see others taking on more. This feeling doesn’t necessarily stem from the curse itself; rather, it reflects your desire for a deeper connection with your Yiddishkeit.
It might help to reframe your perspective: consider that each person’s spiritual journey is unique. What you perceive as jealousy could also be a longing for growth and a more profound relationship with Hashem. It’s healthy to acknowledge these feelings, but also essential to understand that your path is just as valuable, even if it looks different.
Acceptance and Growth: It’s okay to wrestle with these feelings, and seeking answers is part of the growth process. Exploring different facets of Yiddishkeit, whether through learning, asking questions, or participating in community activities, can help you find fulfillment in your spiritual journey.
Hashkafos: Your feelings might stem from a mix of genuine yearning and societal perceptions of roles. Engaging with these questions through learning and dialogue can clarify your thoughts and feelings.
You’re not alone in your struggles, and many others share similar sentiments. Reaching out to a trusted Rav or educator could provide additional guidance tailored to your personal situation. It’s commendable that you’re seeking understanding and clarity—this itself is a significant step in your journey of Yiddishkeit.
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