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I realized that sometimes I sing or hum songs in the bathroom, however when I hum these songs the words tend to flash through my mind and many songs are pesukim or mamarei chazal which are assur to be said or thought about in the bathroom. I asked a Shaila and was told it is mamish assur to hum in the bathroom if the words will be going through my thoughts.
Just want to be modia the olam.
You’re wrong. I have thought of it. And I doubt I’m the only one.
The Wolf
Yasher Koach.
Daf yomi discussed it about 2 weeks ago so the problem is only while using bathroom but its fine in the shower.
I had come up with 6 reasons why those in the Charedei camp need to study secular studies. (Kosher Money, survival skills, being a good citizen, presenting a proper image to the outside world similar to being properly dressed, needed knowledge to understand areas of Torah such as Elu Teraifos, and to appreciate the world G-d created)
WIY, thanks to your insight I now have seventh reason – to avoid Torah thoughts in the bathroom.
If I recall correctly, R’ Moshe has a T’shuvah about something very similar to this. He says that if you play a CD with songs with P’sukim that can be overheard by someone in the bathroom it’s a problem.
Rav Scheinberg zatzal used to play loud music to prevent himself from think about Tora when he showered.
i’ll claim #2 on having thought of it before 🙂
R’ Moshe was niftar in 1986. The CD first appeared in the U.S. in 1983. In the beginning, there were very few plants that could create CDs, so they didn’t replace other media for several years. I suspect R’ Moshe didn’t write about CDs; perhaps he wrote about cassettes or phonograph records.
When I’m in the bathroom at shul I can still hear the davening. Is that a problem?
Now its assur to sing in the shower?
I plan on taking one tonight to please tell me what to do?
?ns ?o suo?????do ?o p??? pu? ‘??p???? ‘??puno? ???
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Tatte, what’s a cassette? What’s a phonograph record?
Ussually its in Hebrew so I have no idea what I’m really saying….but is it assur to say Hashem in the shower/bathroom?
?ns ?o suo?????do ?o p??? pu? ‘??p???? ‘??puno? ???
(319bu?ddo?s) 319[$]
[$]613 (Shopping613)
The Founder, Awarder, and Head of Operations of SUC
WIY: I enjoy Jewish music..the style of it in classic songs like vzakeini legadel and newer songs that are more upbeat like YBC OR MBC….but for me its the music the touched me and my soul not the words….please WIY speak for youself!
?ns ?o suo?????do ?o p??? pu? ‘??p???? ‘??puno? ???
(319bu?ddo?s) 319[$]
[$]613 (Shopping613)
The Founder, Awarder, and Head of Operations of SUC
I must be getting old if V’zakeini Legadel is already a classic!!
Rav Simcha Bunim Cohen paskened that even playing music on a cd player in the bathroom is not a problem. I don’t remember if he gave a reason reason.
Yehudayona: Of course. I meant a tape. Actually, I think he uses the word “tape” (Tes Yud Yud Pei). I just said CD because that’s what I’m so used to saying. Just like I call all tissues “Kleenex”. Yes. He said a tape.
hum “vzakeni” – its not Torah! (there are many others like it, that are either a prayer or a wise saying, but not Torah)
LY: You can’t Daven in a bathroom either. (However, I could hear that there’s no Shomea K’oneh in a bathroom and therefore listening to a song that’s a T’fillah doesn’t count as making a T’fillah. However, that would then cause you trouble with the Issur of listening to music.)
I think about Torah in the bathroom all the time. i know it’s wrong, but i can’t stop myself from doing it.
To avoid this problem, one should be machmir not to learn Torah so he would never have the opportunity to say Torah in the bathroom. One should also go the extra mile of not listening to Jewish Music because it will be about an Averia. One should preferably listen to goyish music all the time and sing it aloud in the bathroom to bring it besoyen.
Is it muttar to read this thread in the bathroom?
@wiy: actually ur wrong that if she doesn’t know the meaning of the words, it’s just like Chinese. Music goes into the Neshama , therefore whether she understands or not, it will have a positive effect on her.
I find this to be a problem when I go to a simcha.
Often, the music in the main hall is loud enough to be heard in the bathroom (especially in the smaller simcha halls) and, often, that music consists of pesukim or Ma’amarei Chazal.
The Wolf
I have remarked on this, too. So I try to avoid even thinking of Jewish music then.
mik5: The Gemara in Zevachim explicitly states that if it’s learning B’ones (that you’re thinking about Torah even while trying to avoid it) then it’s okay.
Wolf: That really is a problem. Ba’alei Simcha should be more careful about it or have them play classical music over the speakers in the bathroom to avoid this problem. I once gave this Eitzah to a couple getting married and B”H they listened to me. And people were impressed by the wedding that they had classical music in the bathroom, not realizing (well, maybe some realized) that it was there for Halachic reasons.
Ba’alei Simcha should be more careful about it or have them play classical music over the speakers in the bathroom to avoid this problem.
There are no speakers in the bathroom. The music in the main hall is just loud. Even installing speakers is not a solution… you’d have to play the non-Jewish music fairly loudly to drown out the Jewish music.
The Wolf
It may be helpful to view the issur as pertaining to “listening” as opposed to “hearing.” Hearing can’t be prevented but listening can, by mental distraction. So, twenty years ago I parked a 2200-page encyclopedia of baseball statistics in that room, and since then, even away from home, I associate entering this place with studying the doings of Mickey and Ty and all the rest. It’s also useful in kol isha situations; it eliminates the need to go to prison, spit in people’s faces, yehareg, etc.
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