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March 24, 2013 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #608753simcha613Participant
1) If the Ba’al Haseder doesn’t have enough matzos in front of him to give two kezeisim to the rest of the table (as is usually the case), should everyone hold the matzos they are going to eat, or is it enough to just take from the boxes without holding them during the berachah? Don’t we usually require a piece of food to be held during the berachah?
2) I don’t understand the chumra of stuffing the largest kezayis of matzah in your mouth, so that you eat it in the shortest kedei achilas peras (I think 2 minutes). Kedei achilas peras by definition is the normal time it takes to eat a kezayis, so the larger your shiur is for a kezayis, the longer you have to eat it. The largest kezayis and the shortest toch kedei achilas peras by definiton don’t go together. What the chumra should be (IMHO) to eat the largest sized kezayis within the largest kedei achilas pera, but make sure to have a shiur of the smallest kezayis within kedei achilas peras.
3) I don’t understand why you should eat less then a kezayis of karpas. I understand that you want the berachah rishonah to cover the Marror also, but why should how much you eat effect that? If Magid is a hefsek, it should be hefsek regardless if you have eaten enough to require a berachah achrona or not. In other words, why should the fact that you ate enough to require a berachah achronah affect how much your berachah rishonah can cover?
March 24, 2013 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #940424SaysMeMember1- if he is being motzi you with his brocha, then he has to hold the matzah. The extra you are using to make up a kzayis just, unless your taking your own 3 matzos.
3- it doesn’t.
March 24, 2013 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #940425ubiquitinParticipant1. No, though usually (By the sedarim Ive been too) the leader will distribute some of his matzah to everybody and you can supplement with other matzah to get to your desired amount.
2. you are right,though dont fret about not understanding it doesnt make sense
3. The issue is to avoid any question of requiring a bracha achrona immediately thereafter
March 24, 2013 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #940426simcha613Participantubiquitin-
If the marror will be covered by your borei pri adamah, why would you need a berachah achronah, regardless of how much you eat?
March 24, 2013 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #940427ubiquitinParticipantThere are many machlokes Rishonim involved: why Maror doesnt require haadama (either because it is patared by earlier haadama or because it is after hammotzi), theres a machlokes whether to make borei nafoshes immediately after eating a kezayis karpas since there is a long hefsek.
By avoiding a kezayis karpas you avoid this machlokes since you certainly wouldn’t make a bracha achrona. This is how mechaber paskens.
(though it is impossible to satisfy EVERY shitah since for example the Rambam paskens that karpas requires a kezayis like every achila, Bach says to be machmir like Ramabam)
March 24, 2013 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #940428ChachamParticipantFirst of all the chumra of two kzaysim is only on the baal haseder. The reason is the bracha of hamotzi and the achilas matza each require their own kzayis. The biur halacha 475 dh kezayis is mefakfeik in this chumra and the chazon ish himself was not makpid on his shiur for these two kezeisim, rather he was somech on the shitos that our kzeisim is enough.
About taking matzaa from the box- it should be noted there is a big machlokes if you need a kzayis davka from the middle matza or if you can take a piece of the middle matza and eaat a kzayis of another matza. Reb Shlomo Zalman in HAlichos shlomo says you can be metzareif from other matzos. However, the brisker rov held since one of the definitions of lechem oni ?????? ???? ????? ???? which is the hagada the matzos should be on the table during maggid.
About the chumra of kdei achilas pras, while pashtus you are right that the two shitos don’t make sense the steipler in shiuron shel torah says to be makpid on 2 minutes lchatchilah. Probably, the reasoning is kdei achilas pras is a set time based on eating pas lechem not on matza. ( however lfi this it must be six times quicker to eat lechem)
March 24, 2013 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #940429HaLeiViParticipantAnother reason not to eat a Kezayis is that you shouldn’t be Yotzei Marror with Karpas.
March 24, 2013 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #940430simcha613ParticipantHaLeivi- I thought that most peopler try and use a vegetable that one can’t use for marror (like a potato) for that reason.
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