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Its around $2,000 and he admits he can pay it back to me, but he is trying to start a business or something and needs every penny of capital he currently has to get it up and running. It has currently been over 6 months since the time that he said he would originally pay it back, but says he will soon be able to pay me out of the profits he is making- oppose to out of the capital he currently has. I dont urgently need the money right now, B”h, but can use it.
What do you think is the right thing to do? We did not make an halachic time he has to pay me back, so I dont know if I can even demand it.
Take him to beis din. The dayanim will decide the halacha as it applies to the situation.
There’s no issur in extending more time. If you don’t need it, I’d think it’s gaining more schar, lending money to one to be able to stand on his own feet.
But what happens if his new venture is a flop?
Even if you get a Din Torah, there is still no way to enforce collection of the debt
We did not make an halachic time he has to pay me back, so I dont know if I can even demand it.
I don’t know if we apply “stam halva’ah shloshim yom”, but certainly he can’t push it off indefinitely. In fact, you wrote that it’s six months since he said he’d pay it back.
I agree with Goq. Get it while he has it, unless your intention was to take on a big risk. From the little you’ve written, this doesn’t pass the smell test.
ZD, bais din can allow going to court to enforce its psak.
Take a Mashkon? Do you even need Bais Din for that (if he agrees, which it sounds like he might, and even if not, Avid Inish Dina D’Nafshei B’Makom P’saidah).
Even if you win in small claims court, it can be hard to collect a small debt.
I assume this is your friend and you want to deal with him as such. And that you don’t want the money to cause animosity between you.
If I’m right then your main consideration is how to do that. You can probably get the money now by forcibly insisting on your rights, and you would be “in the right” to do so.
I would suggest deciding if you are willing to risk possibly losing the money for the sake of friendship and helping a fellow Yid. If so then forget about the money for now. Consider it gone. Talk to him. Tell him you really need the money but you see he needs it even more. So keep the money for now but please return it as soon as you can.
The op did not state why the money was lent but it certainly wasn’t for the business venture that the borrower is involved in now he should have to pay it back before he is allowed to use it for another purpose that was not originally stated.
He is saying he cant go to a doctor even or buy enough food because he needs all the money for business. I feel really guilty.
I do not like the sound of it. You should not feel guilty. It sounds like his priorities are wrong, or he’s scamming you.
What if you set something up where he could pay you back slowly? Maybe 150-200 a month or so. He might be able to do that and it might work for both of you.
If a fellow Jew loaned you $2000 and you were supposed to pay him back six months ago you sound like the type who would have payed him back six months ago.
I suppose if something comes up and you urgently need $2000, guilt him into giving it back?
I suppose if something comes up and you urgently need $2000, guilt him into giving it back?
So a guy meets Moshe Reichmann z”l at a chasunah and asks him for a $50,000 loan. Before he gets a chance to respond, the guy adds, “Don’t worry, as soon as you need it, let me know, and I’ll pay you back”.
newbee – Have you asked him for a Mashkon, like his Menorah or Shabbos Leichter? That will certainly give incentive to pay back.
newbee – Have you asked him for a Mashkon, like his Menorah or Shabbos Leichter? That will certainly give incentive to pay back.
I’m not certain what that will solve.
If he’s being dishonest and simply doesn’t want to pay, then I doubt he’s going to give a mashkon.
If he’s being honest and wants to pay but lacks the funds to do so, then what good will it do to deprive him of his Menora or Shabbos candelabra?
The Wolf
The Chofetz Chaim.
He gives a parable of two brothers sitting at a table with their father. Suddenly one brother reaches over and takes the other’s plate. Rather than add wood to the fire, the brother goes to the father at the head of the table.
Father, you saw what my brother did to me. I’m it would upset you to see us dispute which is why I am asking you to quietly reimburse me.
The father was so happy, he said not only would he give a new plate of food, he would give an even better one.
I don’t know why you are making an issue. If you don’t need the money, and he said he would pay him back, so let him pay when he can. If you need the money now, tell him you need it now and hope he complies.
True friends pay back their debts on time, trust can and often is broken.
There is something you should know, I trust him. He is not trying to cheat me.
I said I could use the money. But I think you are right, I am going to leave it be. I could never take his menorah, that seems so wrong to do to anyone, let alone a friend. It would not even be productive.
That fine that you’re willing to extend the loan for him.
However, I would probably get a written payment schedule from him. If you’re comfortable with it, give him X number of months as a grace period and then a gradual repayment schedule. Something like (for example):
Dec 1, 2015: $400
Mar 1, 2016: $400
Jun 1, 2016: $400
Sep 1, 2016: $400
Dec 1, 2016: $400
(Of course, adjust the dates and amounts per payment to meet the needs of yourself and your friend).
I think it will do both of you a world of service to have clear expectations on when repayment is to be expected. Leaving it vague allows him to say “Oh, I’ll try another venture, he doesn’t need the money back yet…”
The Wolf
give him more time, its ossur medairoisa to ask him for it more than you have already.
give him more time, its ossur medairoisa to ask him for it more than you have already.
Considering he has the right, if the loan is due, to actually summon him to Bais Din, I find it hard to understand how simply asking him outside of Bais Din would be prohibited.
Please explain.
The Wolf
have him sign a pruzbul so you can collect after shmita even outside of Israel
Karl,
Wait, what?
WolfishMusings: thats a great idea, thanks.
You’re welcome.
It does not need to be that amount by those dates, but the concept.
Well, that’s why I said:
(Of course, adjust the dates and amounts per payment to meet the needs of yourself and your friend)
The point, however, is that there should be a firm date and amount that he has to pay back. If left as a vague “whenever you have it,” you’re far less likely to see it again.
The Wolf
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