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i’m doing a book report on A Divine Madness by Rabbi Avigdor Miller. He explains the cause of the destruction in Europe was because of the sins of the jewish people.
I was wondering if anyone read the book and what you think of it.
“He explains the cause of the destruction in Europe was because of the sins of the jewish people.”
How does he know this? Hashem told him?
northwardb
Member
“He explains the cause of the destruction in Europe was because of the sins of the jewish people.”
<del>How does he know this? Hashem told him?</del>
I am sure your post was supposed to say “Rabbi Miller Worded it like that”
@ Crazybrit
We think that Rabbi Miller was in the position to say that the destruction was caused by the sins of the Jewish people, he does not attribute it to this fact only, asides we learn the if Jews sin then evil befalls all Jews, good and not as good.
I didn’t read the book, but the premise has other proofs. For instance, there is a concept that each posuk in the Torah represents a year in the history of the world. BTW, there are less than 6000 Pasukim.
When I heard of this concept, I started checking some key years in recent history. Sorry I don’t have a Hebrew keyboard so I will have to transliterate.
For the year 1938-9, the beginning of the holocaust, the posuk is; “VaYechar Af Hashem…..”
This in no way absolves anyone of the evil they chose to do to us. It just means that Hashem withdrew some of his protection and the barbarians acted as they chose.
The idea that Hashem’s prophecies don’t absolve our enemies is actually not at all a simple one. See the fifth and sixth chapters of the Rambam’s Hilchos Teshuva, with the Raavad.
northwardb:
When calamity befalls the Jewish People,
to what else might it be attributed?
BarryLS1:
Please post a source for the concept. Also, do you
count years starting with the first posuk, and,
more specifically, which posuk did you quote from?
There are some who feel that the book should not have been printed, not because the concepts aren’t true, but because some will not understand, and the benefit of printing it might be outweighed by the harm.
The question of why and how Hashem could allow the Holocaust to happen is an unanswerable question if you maintain the premises that Judaisim does about Hashem (that he is good, just and fair etc.) and for the most part and for most people books like the one mentioned by the OP raise more questions then they answer.
This does NOT mean that an answer does not exist. It just means that if one does exist it is fundamentally beyond our capability to understand it (the same way it is impossible for a monkey to grasp the concepts required to do calculus or algebra etc)
crazybrit, you posted:
“I am sure your post was supposed to say ‘Rabbi Miller Worded it like that'”
??? 🙂
Randomex, you asked:
“When calamity befalls the Jewish People, to what else might it be attributed?”
Hallavai that life & faith were that clear-cut. When calamity befalls the Jewish People we ought to say that Hashem has His own reasons which He need not explain to us. Like Devarim 29:28 says: “The secret things belong to Hashem…” Perhaps we should take David Hamelekh’s advice (Psalms 131): “Hashem, my heart is not haughty, nor my eyes lofty; neither do I exercise myself in things too great, or in things too wonderful for me. Surely I have stilled and quieted my soul; {N}
like a weaned child with his mother; my soul is with me like a weaned child.”
The Jerusalem Post quoted Rav Ephraim Stein, who was at the shul in Har Nof during the recent terrorist attack but who survived unscathed (physically at least), as saying:
Not everything has to have a reason that is comprehensible to such as we.
northwardb:
Bold text in a post, especially at the end, often indicates that it has been altered by a moderator. In this case, the moderator who directed the words you quote towards Crazybrit left part of the original post up in a manner confusing to new readers.
“When calamity befalls the Jewish People we ought to say…”
“Perhaps we should take David Hamelech’s advice…”
Perhaps. But Hashem did not tell us that calamities would befall
us for reasons that we would not understand. He did tell us, however, that they would happen as a result of our sins.
After all, why leave something explainable up to faith,
especially if there is a lesson that may be learned?
Now, Rav Miller himself did not publish the book, although
I assume he did not leave any instruction not to, but he did
not confine his opinion on the matter to that manuscript.
I will b’li neder post my understanding of his opinion later.
Bold text attributes html formatting.
crazybrit:
I take it back, I guess? Now, how about you answer him?
I think he has a good question: “??? :-)”
An answer like the one given in the above mentioned book does not address the core questions on the holocuast. This does NOT mean there is no answer. I just don’t see how the answer given by the above mentioned book answers it (which also is not to say that it doesn’t. I just am having a hard time understanding why it would…)
Let’s review the question:
1.) If Hashem can do anything then it is not “necessary” for him to do anything to reach any particular outcome.
2.) Hashem is Kind, Fair, Loving and does not want to cause any pain that is not necessary.
3.) Why and how does it make sense that he would cause such unimaginable suffering as was seen in the Holocaust when he is capable of reaching whatever outcome he desired without causing that suffering?
Saying simply “he did it because he wanted to wake up Klal Yisroel” or “he did it because he said he would if the yidden did aveiros” does not seem to answer the above question at all.
000646: Rav Miller, nor anyone else, ever claimed to be able to fully explain tzaddik v’ra lo. He merely gave some perspective.
Also, importantly, the concept of “fairness” is not one found in the Torah, and it is wrong to ask from foreign concepts.
Daas Yochid,
It doesn’t seem to me that it adds any “perspective” that was actually my point.
Of course fairness is found in the Torah. What on earth do you mean that fairness is a foreign concept in Judaisim? Either way if you want just leave out fairness and ask from being Just and Good.
I mean what I said. Hashem gives each of us a different tafkid, and treats us differently. “Not fair – why cant I be rich, or smart, or a kohen, or have leadership abilities like so and so” is not a proper attitude, and neither should we expect to have the same comforts, or, lo aleiny, tzaros.
Daas Yochid,
Another point. The book does claim to show that “the holocaust was an act of kindness” from HKB”H and it bears the subtitle “a defense of Hashem in the matter of the holocaust” it seems to be attempting much more then giving some perspective ( As I pointed out above I don’t really understand how pointing out that people in prewar Europe were going off the derech “gives perspective” to among many other things the death of over 1 million innocent children)
“Just” means that punishment is deserved. Well, ??? ???? ????, so every punishment is deserved, and it’s futile to argue that our sense of justice is more correct than Hashem’s.
Hashem is “good” – the entire universe was made so that he can bestow god upon his creations, and the ultimate good is reward which comes through difficulty, through achievement, and at risk of falling and suffering consequences. We may not prefer it, and in fact, Chazal said “??? ?? ???? ??? ????”, but it’s still ultimately for our benefit.
And of course it gives perspective – if not a perspective on any particular individual, on the direction of klal Yisroel, which unquestionably changed.
Again, I haven’t read the book, and I’m not here to defend it or the title, but I don’t think you are correct to completely dismiss the basic argument.
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