A Chasidus without a present Rebbe

So let the true board in charge of the chasidus appoint a new rebbe in charge to lead the chassidim of that chasidus and if they see he’s truly the right person then they will follow in his ways and listen to his words all the way %100 from all angles regarding all topics not just religious topics.

Lubavitchers seem to be doing fine than Beeslov.

Ujm:
If you think Breslov is doing fine then you don’t know Breslov.

Lubavitch also seems to be doing fine.

I like the appointment idea. In yerusha, every yid has someone to inherit him, going up the family tree. So, for L there should be a kapustin or some other cousin rebbe somewhere. He doesn’t need to do it full time, just resolve major machlokets

Every person must take self responsibility. Hashem gave the Torah to each of us and we must use our divine-given brain to make proper decisions.

mod, You seem to be keyed in to Ponevezh

Yup, I think it’s a great example that the litvisher posters can relate to.

(Interesting that you don’t point out how many people seem keyed in to Lubavitch)

people ask because they have questions, your intent was something else I don’texpect from you.

P.S. I’m honestly curious as to the rationale why YWN didn’t cover the terrible fights in Ponevezh, Gur, etc. which were much much worse (and were anyways covered widely by the media), but fully covered this 770 story with several articles and dozens of videos, when it was just a case of vandalism by several bochurim and an altercation with police.

How many is several? Just asking

the rebbe clearly said there wont be another rebbe

If that’s true, then this is is all his fault.

mod,

How many is several? Just asking

Dictionary definition: “More than two but not many.”

In this case: Three.

Not emesdik. Watch the video. 

your intent was something else I don’texpect from you.

My intent in bringing up Ponevezh is not chas v’shalom just for the sake of bashing other Jews or saying lashon hara.

Unfortunately, human nature is that we are quick to notice faults in others while ignoring faults in ourselves. Therefore, many will rush to say that the entire Lubavitch movement is problematic due to the wild actions of some young people who consider themselves Lubavitch but don’t represent Lubavitch, while they completely ignore that their own community may suffer from the very same issue of the existence of wild, radical, violent groups of extremist young people.

The very fact that so many people were perfectly fine with the Lubavitch coverage, yet were so offended by my mentioning what happened in Ponevezh really proves this point.

Incorrect conclusion. “People” weren’t offended. You took a comment about something current and, instead of responding to it, shlepped in a past event of intense controversy to you as if there’s a connection/to make a connection. When there is current coverage of animalistic behavior of others, r”l, it is expected as it is current coverage.

This also answers the claim of the OP that this issue is specific to Lubavitch due to the “chasidus without a present rebbe”-status (so to speak), by pointing out that communities that don’t necessarily fit this narrative can suffer from the same issues.

I still don’t fully understand why people are so shocked by my insinuating that YWN would cover brawls in other Jewish sects, but covering Lubavitch doesn’t bother them.

P.S. I’m not necessarily pro publicizing these things. I’m just not understanding the seeming double standard.

Im not pro publicizing much at all – 

“There’s no such thing as a Chasid without a Rebbe.”

Let’s inverse this true statement.

I see plenty of Chassidim so there must be a Rebbe.

Menachem, your point is well made.

Menachem,

I was trying to hold myself back from responding (I was thinking of making a thread about your comments on the main but decided against it, I’m happy someone else started one and got you to respond

When Lubavitch paints themselves as “holier than thou” because they learn chassidus but then when they are called out for their bad behavior say “well you do it too” it doesn’t show how you are better

Case in point

You probably didn’t go onto the NY Post’s website and say the same thing

According to Lubavitch chassidus is the way so show it and don’t try to deflect

coffee addict,

But don’t we claim the same thing about Yiddishkeit? Don’t we say that Torah makes a person more eidel, that a proper Jewish education should give someone better midos?

Respectfully, your taana sounds quite similar to the taana of the “chilonim” when something happens in the frum community at large: “The chreidim paint themselves as holier than thou because they learn Torah and keep mitzvos, yet…”

Of course, the answer to both taanos is: Our learning is supposed to affect us, and hopefully it does for many people. Is that to say that we don’t have a yetzer hara? Does Hashem take away our bechira chofshis to do something wrong?

Unfortunately, the media doesn’t have a shortage of times where someone who was considered a holy yerei shamayim committed terrible wrongdoings which are completely unbefitting of a ben Torah.

This is especially relevant in a case when many bochurim involved in such acts are indeed people who haven’t spent much of their time in yeshiva learning Torah, so it’s even more understandable that it didn’t have much of an effect on them.

And again, I wasn’t ch”v trying to JUSTIFY what happened by pointing out others who did it, two wrongs don’t make a right. I was trying to make two important points which I elaborated on above.

Menachem,

So you agree that litvish Torah learning is the same as Lubavitch learning chassidus?

Seems like Chabad has grown substantially in 30 years w/o a “Rebbe”. While there are these occasional hiccups, the absence of a successor doesn’t seem to have inhibited expansion in many new locations nor undermined its mosdos.

kuvult,

Telling your whole historical narrative to a chossid (at least a Chabad chossid – I can only talk for myself) is like a secular historian trying to convince a frum Yid about the “real way” that the Torah was composed by some random scholars…

We see the concept of a Rebbe from a chassidus perspective, so it takes on a whole different meaning.

How many Brreslover or Lubaviltcher chasidim do we need to light a candle? We cannot replace it as the previous one always burns better.

I asked a shliach who will be the current or next rebbe. He said it is us, all Jews, the observant and the not-yet observant.

“Telling your whole historical narrative to a chossid (at least a Chabad chossid – I can only talk for myself) is like a secular historian trying to convince a frum Yid about the “real way” that the Torah was composed by some random scholars…“

100%

The Rebbe makes it clear in hayom yom how to be mekusher even after ג tammuz.

This is one of those cases where you have to be swimming it these particular waters to appreciate it, an outside understanding will only confuse you.

AAQ

“So turns out , most of us here were Chassidim to begin with.”

You’re a chossid if you accept the Rebbe as your own, but yah The Rebbe wanted every Jew to be a shliach in his own way.

“So it seems that L Rebbe decided that he educated his students enough to be self-responsible.”

Sort of. More like the Rebbe is inspiring and guiding but more backstage instead of taking front and Center stage. The advantage is that people actually internalize the Rebbes message and teachings and make it their own instead of just doing things automatically because The Rebbe said so, without it being their own

@Menachem
I’m not exactly sure where you saw in my response that I was offended, the fact that your behavior was rightfully called out doesn’t mean that I took any offense from your comment, I have no affiliation with ponevezh or it’s communities and I was responding as a member of Klal Yisroel who thought that your maligning a group of Jews on a public forum for selfish reasons was pretty disgusting.
And as far as your reasoning that you were trying to bring out that it’s not Lubavitch that was at fault, and every community has some misbehaving youth, your original post was on the article that was very clear that it didn’t have any issue with Lubavitch per se, and that those boys were in no way representative of the greater community, and despite that you felt a need, just in case it would somehow be misconstrued as a chillul Lubavitch, to immediately show how other Jews have the same problem. Additionally, your total lack of respect of people other than your own was shown again shortly afterwards, when you were rightfully criticizing the editors description of these boys as terrorists, you decided to describe the yerushalmi protesters as animals. While I agree their actions might not be correct, your callousness in refering to your fellow Jews is disgusting.

I have 1 simple question for Lubavitch Chassidim. If Moshiach comes today but he isn’t the Rebbe, would you accept him?
I would prefer a straight Yes or No answers.

I’m not exactly sure where you saw in my response that I was offended

I’m sorry for assuming that.

your maligning a group of Jews on a public forum for selfish reasons was pretty disgusting.

Question: Do you feel that YWN’s reporting on the 770 tunnels was also maligning a group of Jews on a public forum and therefore pretty disgusting?

If not, why is reporting on the Ponevezh brawl in 5781 any different?
If yes, why didn’t you comment on the entire YWN article instead of focusing on a single commenter?

the article that was very clear that it didn’t have any issue with Lubavitch per se, and that those boys were in no way representative of the greater community, and despite that you felt a need, just in case it would somehow be misconstrued as a chillul Lubavitch, to immediately show how other Jews have the same problem.

And it’s quite apparent from the existence of this thread that it was indeed seen as representative of issues in Lubavitch as a whole, which is why I feel that my comment was necessary, as I elaborated on in earlier posts (people find faults in others but not in themselves, etc.).

I want to clarify again that I’m not ch”v looking to condemn other communities, rather point to a greater issue that we must all deal with together.

when you were rightfully criticizing the editors description of these boys as terrorists, you decided to describe the yerushalmi protesters as animals

My intention was not at all to start calling Jews names. It was purely a play on words from the nusach used by YWN:
They compared the bochurim to “animals in Gaza” so I was saying (slightly sarcastically) that even if they want to use a derogatory term for these bochurim, it should be comparing them to other violent protestors in the Jewish community, not Hamas terrorists who killed Jews. My using the word “animals” about violent protestors was purely to emphasize how I was borrowing YWN’s nusach.

qwerty: “The question that started this thread implies that a Chassidus is viable if it has a Rebbe…. if you had a Rebbe, like the Sfas Emes(my favorite) who made Torah study the sine qua non of life, I think the movement could go on quite well without a Rebbe.”

It seems that you don’t realize that “a chassidus” is not the same as “a movement”. While a chassidus is ALSO ‘a movement’ it is far more than that, as the former requires a rebbe while the latter does not.