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I need help. My son was expelled from a yeshivisha yeshiva, and I’ve drafted a letter to share with someone from the hanhala, explaining the full story and the trauma involved. I’m looking for a writer who can edit and enhance it to convey the emotional impact effectively. Does anyone have recommendations for a writer I can hire for this?
Save your beautiful writing for the next yeshivah. Maybe even let him switch to another city.
I feel bad for you but it is better to show remorse and to promise that he will change in the future.
Where’s commonsaychel?
Wondering555: I’d agree with Qwerty…..Probably better to move on. However, if you really want to appeal the expulsion with the Rosh Yeshiva, than write from your heart and convey your feelings. An appeal from a “professional writer” is likely to come across as phony and not especially helpful. If the school administration felt the circumstances warranted expulsion rather than suspension or some lesser penalty, its unlikely they will reverse themselves because you are feeling emotionally distraught.
I heard Waterbury yeshiva is equipped to deal with boys whom other yeshivas fail.
As R Kestenbaum of that yeshiva writes “we are losing our resh lakishes”. We don’t know the circumstances, but you also need to consider whether it is the best for your child to be in this place where they do not want him. He might be better at a place like Waterbury or learning with his parents and private tutors. See if a change improves his situation. Deal with the child first, do not get distracted to deal with the yeshiva.
ChatGPT is surprising good for this type of project.
Me:
Write a short argument that provides a good reason for having a cat.ChatGPT:
Having a cat offers numerous benefits, both practical and emotional. Cats are natural hunters, helping to keep homes free from pests like mice and insects. Their independent yet affectionate nature makes them low-maintenance companions, providing comfort and reducing stress without requiring constant attention. Additionally, the presence of a cat can create a calming atmosphere, as their purring has been shown to lower blood pressure and promote relaxation. Thus, a cat not only enhances the household with its charming presence but also contributes to a healthier and more peaceful living environment.Dovid: Chat/AI apps are sometimes helpful but frequently provide totally meshugah rants. In the current situation, I’m not sure having someone who is not a good writer to begin with, use an AI generated template for his request for reconsideration.
I wish you lots of הצלחה and lots of נחת from your son but before moving forward I think you should look into cases where someone was expelled and then let back in using pull, connections or whatever method was available and seeing what their experience was afterwards. (It wasn’t always pleasant.)
Also, keep in mind that (as I’m sure you already know) just because a kid was expelled, it doesn’t mean that it’s the kid that doesn’t belong there.
Dr. Pepper is correct. If you collect reports of the experiences of those who fought and expulsion and won, the best results were short lived. I actually witnessed this many times, and have NEVER seen the restoration of the yeshiva placement last. All that Hanhalah does, if compelled to retract the expulsion, is put the talmid under undue scrutiny. The slightest belief that there was any form of imperfect behavior is grounds to repeat the expulsion, this time with no hope for reconsideration. You may inquire from the tzaddikim who volunteer huge amounts of time and effort to help with yeshiva placements. You will find that what I just said here will be repeated by all of them.
Guys, stop focusing on a yeshiva.
They had their chance to educate the kid and to show chesed if the child is a difficult one. There are numerous stories that gedolim did not tolerate expulsions, such as R Schach telling the yeshiva managers that it is ok to expel the the kid and then was seen personally tutoring the kid, leading to them taking the kid back. I am not saying that there are no kids that should be elsewhere, but most cases are not.
So, it is either the yeshiva managers (1) are not aware of the position of the gedolim, or (2) are not willing to follow their example, or (3) it is a case of a kid who really does not belong there. My humble opinion is in all of 3 cases, there is no reason to try to get back there. If you think differently, please specify which of the 3 hypotheses above you presume.
So, instead – focus on what the kid needs to develop into an erliche Yid and start providing that. If you think that in a long-term he needs to be in a yeshiva, you can continue searching for the right place, but there is no reason you can’t provide a good environment for the kid yourself with the help from friends, tutors, local rabbis.
Now I’m getting worried why commonsaychel hasn’t commented on this thread
What someone is expelled is because of influencing others.
Someone is expelled because they can be influencing others.
@ Reb Eliezer
If that was always true then that’s a different story. Unfortunately it’s not always the case.
RebE, indeed, my hevruta and I were once kicked out of the class specifically fir that. As the rebbe said in front of the class, our misbehaving didn’t affect our learning but affected others who were copying us.. this tochacha actually worked
.. still, this contradicts numerous stories of gedolim personally protecting such kids. Maybe there are other gedolim who hold differently, then please bring the sources.I once talked with a school administrator about challenging kids. He shared with me how he visited r Kanevsky with a shailoh about his child. I asked him then who is the school asking such shailohs about expelling kids and he didn’t have a ready answer. Do you know who is your school asking shailos of?
Our yeshivas don’t accept talmidim from non-shomer -shabbos families
@ Reb Eliezer
Were you replying to someone in particular?
“Chat/AI apps are sometimes helpful but frequently provide totally meshugah rants.”
That’s true, but the same applies to human beings.
RebE, having acceptance standards is somewhat different from expelling. Same difference as between rejecting a shidduch and giving a get.
But even them – a number of chabad schools accept such kids at least in younger ages, especially Israelis who send kids to Jewish kindergartens until public schools. And now, with government giveaways of pre-schools that seem to also fund religious ones, I’ve heard of mixed kindergartens of yeshivish and non-observant kids. Possibly because free beats the concerns and nobody issued an issur yet (as with public schools).
Dovid > same applies to human beings.
ChatGPT is different from more professional AI apps as it learns from a large corpus of human text and speaks like your average person, just with less safeguards. Some theoreticians posit that the next generation of GPTs will perform worse than the current (contrary to the usual tech improvement trends) – as current human generations learns from GPT and next generation of GPT will learn from current writers …
A traditional AI poses a question and then measures how well it can answer it. It can be wrong but in a controlled way. There is now work to combine GPTs with responsible algorithms, will see how that goes.
Its just a question of time until there are artificial intelligence Apps that will provide a psak on any shaylah one may have. No more having to establish a relationship with a local rav or posek to ponder your complex questions of halacha. Just log in to www. LRP-AI.yid, type in your shaylah and within seconds you will have a psak din that avoids all those pesky chumrahs.
Gadol > No more having to establish a relationship with a local rav
Well, the AIrev rav will still need to personalize the psak, as we discussed here many times – halakha is personal. The only difference is – the rav is basing his psak based on what you tell him about you, while AI will use your actual browsing history. So, expect the psak being more precise.
If a big Rabbi/Posek made an AI to answer shailos, could that be relied on (assuming its close to %100 accuracy of what the rabbi would say)? This is theoretical (not assuming any Rabbi would)
You don’t need a posek involved. Simply train AI using his teshuvos and test on other ones so you know the quality.
“You don’t need a posek involved. Simply train AI using his teshuvos and test on other ones so you know the quality…”
So in less than a decade, the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah will consist of a dozen advanced chatbots looped in series so that each teshuvah and psak works off those of the others and incorporates the consensus views of “real” gadolim over hundreds of years.
Gadol, not that simple. Machine learning works well (or at least with predictable performance) in a “closed world” (olam satum?). When events change, or even just their probabilistic distribution, then you would need contemporary poskim to re-train the system. This is what parsha Shoftim teaches – go get training data from shoftim of your generation. So, here (computer) science and Torah are in full agreement.
The problem would be that when most of psak will be given by AI, how do we ensure that new generation poskim will be ready to step in? Same as how do we keep pilots to be ready to step into a complicated landing when they are sleeping through the flight most of the time.
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