8 year old gets spit on by chassidim

No one wakes up one morning and starts to and lob spittle at children. This behavior is learned and taught by the likes of mmd and Health who have in fact shown us that they are part of a sick and disgusting group of individuals who will pay a heavy price for the chillel Hashem which they fomented. It is assur to give musser unless you how to give it and the halachos involved. This is no Pinchas situation. Bais Din; parents; a Rebbe are authorized to exact punishment; not any self-appointed pervert.

This is nuts, absolutely nuts.

I care about shemiras einayim and hilchos tznius. I am personally bothered when people are lax with these halachos. But these protesters are so warped in their actions that I can’t believe anyone here is attempting to mount a defense for them.

Let’s not even get into the spitting on an 8-year old yet. That’s in a league of its own. Why are these protesters even there? If what “Health” says is true, that they can see immodestly dressed women from their windows due to this school, how on earth can they justify running up to the school to get a closer look (while yelling at them of course)? Would a person concerned about exposure to radiation protest a nuclear power plant being built across the street from his house by running into the radioactive core? Pure shemiras einayim cannot be their motivation, because if it were, it would be their WIVES out there protesting. The men would stay as far away from the school as they could, choosing instead to complain through other channels. My wife would never want me to place myself in a situation where it would be certain that I would see pritzus. In fact, to do that is a violation of halacha.

Now for the spitting. Some (or one) here have attempted to say, “the MO started it, so they have the blame for inflaming the crazies.” Excuse me? That’s an argument little children use. Real adults take responsibility for their actions, no matter what instigated the situation. If I assault a guy who cut me off in traffic, do you think the cops will excuse me if I said, “but he started it, he had it coming! He shoulda known that there are crazy people around!” Another argument made here to defend these men is “maybe the children are dressed ok, but the problem is the mothers walking the children to school are immodest…” Well then, why was it the 8-year old girl who got spit on? Did the monster miss the mother and hit the girl by mistake? Maybe he was accidentally facing children when hurling epithets and meant to face the mothers? I don’t think so.

Unfortunately we do have a tznius problem, and I think some people here are afraid that if they fully condemned the spitter, they would somehow be yielding ground in their argument. But this crime was not about tznius. If we allow tznius to be co-opted by sheer perversion, to be used as a weapon by debauched individuals to violate women with the veneer of “holiness”, then we lose everything.

Misogyny is not a mitzvah.

WolfishMusings

+1

adams -“The question I have is, is the majority of hair covering sufficient. There is majority of opinions to rely upon.

SO this machlokes of the Mother not fully hair covered is a chumra machloikes.”

Since when is covering all your hair a Machlokes? Name any Rov that says it’s Mutter L’chatchilla to Not cover your whole hair?

Hi Health.

I hate to say it but either you have a comprehension problem, misunderstand the context of a post (which is epidemic in blogging and texting) or are being extremely childish in wanting to “win” when you cant really “win” with someone of a differing opinion.

But, in this case, you do “win” because I am tired of having to spell things out and then you go off point to try to save your point, which you dont have to do since your opinion is valid to you and you own it, as I do mine.

Sooooo….is it safe to say that we both think what happened to this girl was a bad thing and this is newsworthy and an embarrassment to Jews?

the Aguda has not properly condemed these acts, I saw the statement and they blame the victims.

If this didnt involve charedim and someone was stalking out 8 year old girls, They would be called pedaphiles.

In fact one of the protesters said he was concerened about being led on by an 8 year old. he is a pedaphile.

Exactly how much hair is “uncovered”, Rav Falk, who by many accounts follows the most stringent opinion at all times, writes the following….

“Hair which is difficult to contain in a regular well-fitted hair covering is halachically (according to law) exempt from this obligation. This refers to hair which grows on the temples next to the ear or on an exceptionally low hairline that extends below what a net or tiechel (scarf) would normally contain.”

The quote comes from Modesty- An Adornment for Life, Rabbi Pesach Eliyahu Falk (exact page number is somewhere in the 230s I believe, dont remember exactly where).

He continues….

“Although there is no obligation to cover such hair, nevertheless, if local shomrei mitzvos (observant Jews) are stringent and cover them, the halacha (law) obliges women who live in this locality to behave likewise.”

On the flip side…There is the opinion of Rav Moshe Z’l in E”H 1:58 (I dont do hebrew fonts) that seems to permit a woman to show one square tefach of hair. However, he adds that since a woman’s head, on average, is about two tefachim wide, she should not allow more than half of a tefach to stick out.

The question, I guess, boils down to who or what established/establishes minhag hamakom? Is minhag hamakom like Rav Moshe, or like the Poskim Rav Falk relies on (I dont remember who he quotes).

BTGuy -“Sooooo….is it safe to say that we both think what happened to this girl was a bad thing and this is newsworthy and an embarrassment to Jews?”

Getting spit on is a bad thing. Why do you make me repeat things a hundred times? I hate to say it but you must have a comprehension problem!

Now is it Newsworthy? Well if after the Israeli media finish discussing in gory detail all the crimes that occur on a daily basis in Israel, then I guess they can mention it. But, I really don’t think they would have the time, because the News is only about a half-hour or a hour long. Just discussing one crime in detail would take up the most time. But for some reason (I can’t imagine why) they only have the time to discuss this “Major” crime of spitting.

I guess all crimes in Israel have stopped because 1. – They all are watching the Charedi bashing all day in the news – so there is no time for any criminal activity.

Or 2. – They have all become BT’s, B’H.

Barring these two reasons – they should be discussing the most violent crimes first!

As far as “embarrassment to Jews”, there is a topic on this in the CR, and I have many posts on this. Check it out!

Avram in MD -“Why are these protesters even there? If what “Health” says is true, that they can see immodestly dressed women from their windows due to this school, how on earth can they justify running up to the school to get a closer look (while yelling at them of course)? The men would stay as far away from the school as they could, choosing instead to complain through other channels. My wife would never want me to place myself in a situation where it would be certain that I would see pritzus.”

This is a logical question. But I’ve posted here a few times -there is a reason and s/o should start a topic about it.

“Now for the spitting. Some (or one) here have attempted to say, “the MO started it, so they have the blame for inflaming the crazies.” Excuse me? That’s an argument little children use. Real adults take responsibility for their actions, no matter what instigated the situation. If I assault a guy who cut me off in traffic, do you think the cops will excuse me if I said, “but he started it, he had it coming! He shoulda known that there are crazy people around!” Another argument made here to defend these men is “maybe the children are dressed ok, but the problem is the mothers walking the children to school are immodest…” Well then, why was it the 8-year old girl who got spit on? Did the monster miss the mother and hit the girl by mistake? Maybe he was accidentally facing children when hurling epithets and meant to face the mothers? I don’t think so.”

Excuse me? Noone here defended the spitter. The only thing that was the defended was the protests! You don’t seem to be able to differentiate. Very sad! So this last diatribe is a storm in a tea cup!

“Unfortunately we do have a tznius problem, and I think some people here are afraid that if they fully condemned the spitter, they would somehow be yielding ground in their argument.”

I don’t know what you are talking about -name s/o who is afraid to condemn it? You are starting to sound like the Freye or MO haters. Every single Charedi must proclaim from the rooftops and scream we are against spitting or we all are complicit with the spitters.

Typical double standard! Does Every Single MO or settler condemn publically the desecration & burning of Mosques and attack on soldiers? Does Every Single Freye Jew (Chiloni) condenm the crimes that occur daily amongst them?

mikehall -“Health…why do you feel the constant need to trample on MO? It’s clear you don’t agree with their philosophy, but there is no need to continuously bash, especially when the great majority of what you say shows that you are clearly misinformed and lack any basic understanding…”

Mike…why do you feel the constant need to trample on Charedim? It’s clear you don’t agree with their philosophy, but there is no need to continuously bash, especially when the great majority of what you say shows that you are clearly misinformed and lack any basic understanding…!

“And how did MO get brought into this discussion anyway? What does MO have to do with a man spitting on an 8yr old girl? Are you claiming that because the child is MO it was justified? (eventhough there is no indication the child was MO, not that it should matter).”

The child comes from the MO community. Sorry that you don’t have the time to read that part in the news. And who ever claimed that the spitting was justified?

“Is it because the spitter is Charedi, then according to you he was automatically in the right and the girl and her family brought this on herself?

Because, this is what it sounds like…”

Not defending the spitter, but his spitting was a reaction to the provocation. Yes, they shouldn’t start up with bringing their kids to school with them not dressing properly!

“Anyhow; keep up with your nonsensical posts, they provide me with great amusement during an otherwise boring work day.”

Anyhow; keep up with your nonsensical, spiteful, hateful posts, they provide me with great amusement during an otherwise boring day!

Hi Avrum in MD.

Nice post.

apushatayid & zahavasdad -“pervert”

“The proper term for grown men hanging around a girls elementary school.

If this didnt involve charedim and someone was stalking out 8 year old girls, They would be called pedaphiles.”

I guess acc. to your logic I shouldn’t have used the word “vigilante” when referring to ones who attack Soldiers and desecrate & burn Mosques. They should be referred to as “MO Murderers or Terrorists”. Because with their violence they could have easily murdered s/o; much more than s/o who spits and protests Tzinus can come to Pedophilia!

Health…I caught that you didn’t say a “boring work day”….figures I know your probably allergic to an honest day of work 🙂

This is getting very childish, and sillier by the hour. I am waiting for someone to call someone a doodyhead and stick out their tongue.

Oh, don’t be such a doodyhead. :p 🙂

The Wolf

Health, you keep claiming the woman’s hair was uncovered. I understand you can’t post a link to such a picture even if you had one, however, every single video about the story in this thread shows a woman who is properly covered. There really is no point in going round and round here. It is what is already going on in RBS.

The wheels on the bus go round and round……

mikehall- “Health…I caught that you didn’t say a “boring work day”….figures I know your probably allergic to an honest day of work”

What hypocrisy!! You spending time on YWN when you are supposed to be working is dishonest and stealing from your boss.

Unless you work for yourself and instead of helping out your employees with their work, you overwork them so you can play in the CR!

Avram in MD -“Health,

This [why men who supposedly care about shemiras einayim would congregate around a girls school with improperly dressed girls/parents for any reason -recap mine] is a logical question. But I’ve posted here a few times -there is a reason and s/o should start a topic about it.

Please, provide me a reason. I cannot think of any.”

A few feet down isn’t a new topic!

“Noone here defended the spitter.

I don’t know what you are talking about -name s/o who is afraid to condemn it?”

“You.”

LIAR!!!!!

“Example:

Not defending the spitter, but his spitting was a reaction to the provocation.

This is a defense of the spitter… providing a justification. Your adding “not defending the spitter” to this defense of the spitter does nothing but make an oxymoron. Like when the P.A. says, “oh, we condemn suicide bombings, but the suicide bombers are just reacting to Israeli oppression…” No, the spitting was not a reaction to any provocation. It was an act of abuse, an assault, pure and simple.”

This I just posted -“Explaining why s/o reacted the way he did is Not necessarily defending his behavior. And in this case, I said clearly what I hold.” This isn’t a justification either -it’s an explanation. Too bad your sick Sinas Chinum doesn’t let you see the truth in regards to Charedim!

“You are starting to sound like the Freye or MO haters.

I’m not afraid of your threatened labels.”

So I’ll take this response as an Yes, I do hate Charedim!

But are you Frei or MO?

“As a Jewish male who cares about guarding my eyes, this was a crime that was committed in my name, in my defense! So yes, I or my leaders have a responsibility to speak out.”

This is the best one yet. They did it for YOU? Do you think you are G-d???? For your name? For your defense?

“If someone heaven forbid killed a motorist and told the police that he did it so that “Avram in MD” would have a quicker commute, you’d better bet that I’d condemn it!”

Most people would say -“Don’t bother me with some lunatic’s drivel”. Unless you’re feeling guilty. People don’t defend any accusation hurled at them, unless they have some guilt for whatever occured!

“Does Every Single MO or settler condemn publically the desecration & burning of Mosques and attack on soldiers?

The Yesha Council and Im Tirtzu, among other prominent officials in that movement did unequivocally condemn the violence.”

You didn’t answer the question! I asked -Did Every Single one condemn it?

The actions of those sub-human yahoos are irredeemable and I assure them and you that they cannot do teshuva for their monumental aveiros and that the have no cheilek in Olam Haba’a.

Irredeemable? Can’t do teshuva? Wow. I’m pretty sure you are wrong on that count.

No cheilek in olam haba? Pretty sure you are wrong on that count also.

sub-human? Ok, you are getting a bit carried away. I don’t think a simple assault makes you sub-human. Actually, nothing you can do makes you sub-human, but I recognize that we don’t like to group ourselves together with really bad people, and sometimes like to think that murderers and rapists are sub-human. But it is totally uncalled for here.

Now, some people call each other sub-human, when they are attempting to de-empathize with them. Like Whites did to Blacks, Nazis did to Jews, Tutsis did to Hutus, etc. If that is what you are doing, then you are the dangerous one who belongs in jail with them.