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What is the #1 most important thing that a boy/girl needs to have for you to consider him/her for marriage? Or, what middah do you find most attractive in any person?
A bas talmid chochom who is a good cook with middos tovos.
Definitely patience, or the ability to give in/let it go
There are a number of things most people would not marry anyone lacking, such as sanity and the ability to have children.
Do you mean only those things that are a necessity for you, but possibly not for other people?
(I’m not sure the right word with regard to middos is “attractive” – perhaps “admirable.”)
Eftach, I’m starting to wonder if you only start threads in an attempt to spark philosophical discussions.
the ability to give in/let it goAn interesting quality to name here, as having it
oneself obviates the need for others to…
money
A bochur goes to a girl’s house to meet her for the first time. It’s his first time going out, and he’s very nervous. The father sits him down, and puts him through the ringer. He grills him in hashkafah, halachah, the sugya he learned three months ago, how he would treat his wife, etc, with the boy made to feel very uncomfortable the whole time. Finally, the girl’s father asks him, “so, what kind of girl are you looking for?”.
Answers the boy, “a yesomah”.
randomex – lol ideally, both parties should have this middah 🙂
PBA – question: am I supposed to EVER take you seriously?? (no idea if this has already been discussed – probably 🙂 )
Attraction is as important as admiration, perhaps more.
The ability to act respectfully to all people in all situations, even when sorely tempted into rudeness or losing one’s temper.
#Good middos #easygoing #onethatyoucantrust
eb – congrats on starting a post that popa deemed worthy of answering 😀 that’s Big Stuff! It actually is an interesting and important question (though I’m not in shidduchim yet, THANK G-D!!!)
Haven’t read everything yet, but it looks like a job for… me. 🙂
CozImJewish:
PBA - question: am I supposed to EVER take you seriously?? (no idea if this has already been discussed - probably :) )eftachbchinor: `
Popa- I was wondering if you’d ever respond to anything I say. The impression I always got from reading what you say is that you’re the Big Popa of this place, and your words are usually short n sharp. But I have to say I’m really unimpressed now. `
Here’s the deal: Popa (pronounced puh-puh), full name popa_bar_abba (a play on Abba bar Popa, one of Rav Popa’s sons, who are mentioned at a siyum) is a longtime member of the Coffee Room who fills the role of court jester/troll*-in-residence and is favored by (at least some of) the mods.
(See here, section C.)
You should not take anything he says
seriously unless it is either 1) about halacha or
2) believable and sensible in its context.
Otherwise, it is only a joke.
Popa’s profile is located here:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/profile/popa_bar_abba
Clicking on his name will give you a little bit of information as well.
*”Troll” is a term used for someone on the Internet who says or does things not because they mean them sincerely, but only in order to get a reaction from people.
________________
#Good middos #easygoing #onethatyoucantrustGotta love these young’uns who either naturally speak in hashtags and/or assume any site that they’re on uses them. Dern kids!
More seriously, “seventh” has been registered since
December 27, 2012 (1 year)but only became active 3 weeks ago.As the kids say, whatever. (Anyone who’s lurked for a year would
know not to use hashtags, or at least one hopes they would.)
Middos & Money, everything else can be improved.
crazybrit – what, coz you can’t improve your middos?
crazybrit – what, coz you can’t improve your middos?
Disagree. Both middos and money can be improved (although of course you should never marry someone expecting them to change in any way at all). Other considerations such as family background will never change. I didn’t consider that a major factor at all when I was dating, but some do, and it’s worth noting that whatever the circumstances are, it’s a done deal.
Money can’t be improved?
The number one thing you must have is attraction.
Then ???? ????, middos, etc. the decision is yours.
Well, it always helps if they are breathing. Oh you were serious??? Then good-natured and emesdig. (Middos tovos, thoughtfulness, sensitivity, etc. all fall under this umbrella).
And I know he's trolling (though thanks for explaining what that means). In that case he expected my response and u don't ignore Poppa.Without knowledge of the meaning of a term, knowing that someone is doing it is meaningless as well.
And a well-known rule of the Internet is “Do not feed the trolls,”
meaning ignore them (often abbreviated as DNFTT).
That, of course, is why I’m ignoring ChizukGedarim’s post.
(Also, please let go of this Popa=Big Papa thing.)
Compatibility… Not necessarily attraction. Menchlichkeit. Good midos. You can become attracted after marriage believe it or not!
Sure, you can become attracted after marriage. But you might not. That’s a big gamble and could lead to a lot of hurt feelings.
Physical attraction surely should not be the first qualification. Chazal gives us good advice in what to consider and that isn’t among their top advice. Middos is among the top ranking considerations. Putting attraction before middos is a recipe for disaster. The chasidim don’t focus a tremendous amount on attraction, they often have a one-tome besho and are engaged, and there marriages work out quite fine, some might even strongly argue better than average among the frum communities.
A yerei shamayim would definitely top my list. Someone who is looking to grow spiritually. An authentic, genuine person.
Like jfem says don’t marry expecting your spouse to change, but you must definitely be open to change and willing to accomodate.
How do you quantify a successful marriage, though? Low divorce rates aren’t worth much, because plenty of unhappy couples stay married for various reasons.
I think divorce rates in fact are a good indicator of a communities rate of successful marriages. Another good indication is the domestic violence conviction rate reflected in the local court records or police blotter.
It’s a very good question and hard to quantify. But lack of domestic violence does not indicate a happy marriage! On the other had attraction and infatuation before marriage aren’t indicative of compatibility in marriage either.
If someone is pleasant and a mentch and you have shared goals for life you can grow to love each other.
I think divorce rates in fact are a good indicator of a communities rate of successful marriages. Another good indication is the domestic violence conviction rate reflected in the local court records or police blotter.
I don’t.
Both of those things have many other factors also involved. Probably you can say a marriage that ended in divorce was unsuccessful, but you can’t really get any more data than that out of it.
And probably we can imagine domestic abuse is not compatible with a successful marriage. But if you think it is a natural corollary of an unhappy marriage, that is very concerning.
A happy marriage is where you eat the last piece of cake because you know she’d want you to have it.
hilarious DY as always.
That reminds of the yekke and the non-yekke who were at shalishudis and there were two pieces of cake left, and the non-yekke takes the bigger one. Says the yekke, “you know, if I had taken first, I would have left you the larger piece.”
“So what’s the problem?”, responds the non-yekke, “you got the one you wanted!”
LOL!! that’s hilarious dy! I saw goq’s post and i was wondering what he was talking about! 🙂
popa: Let me rework that: Domestic violence rates (and divorce rates to a slightly lesser extent) can provide a fairly good *comparative* guide to which communities have better successful marriage rates.
popa: Let me rework that: Domestic violence rates (and divorce rates to a slightly lesser extent) can provide a fairly good *comparative* guide to which communities have better successful marriage rates.
Disagree.
Two communities with equal marriage success could have wildly variable rates of divorce depending on how much the society looks down on divorce, and could have wildly different rates of domestic violence depending on how violent the cultures are.
It’s like if you’d try to prove that catholics have happier marriages because they have less divorce. They aren’t even allowed to divorce. (You weren’t actually talking about catholics, were you?)
There are plenty of communities in which divorce is considered shameful, so many couples are living together in failed marriages, but won’t take the step of actually separating and/or divorcing– leading to artificially low divorce rates.
Let’s put divorce aside. If someone comes from a more “violent culture”, thus resulting in more domestic violence than other communities, that in itself indicates less happier marriages. So domestic violence rates would be a good indicator even if you’re dismissive of divorce rates.
Randomex – I would just like to advise you very politley that it is not your buisness whether someone decides to post using hashtag’s etc as far as I know its not against the coffee room rules.
sincereness in yiddishkeit
seventh, I’m pretty sure Randomex was half teasing and half noting that hashtags don’t fit with the general “style” of this forum. You can use them, of course, but no one else does, so it just looks a little weird. No big deal, though.
Let’s put divorce aside. If someone comes from a more “violent culture”, thus resulting in more domestic violence than other communities, that in itself indicates less happier marriages. So domestic violence rates would be a good indicator even if you’re dismissive of divorce rates.
It would not at all, joe. Because suppose two communities have the same marriage happiness rate (60% very happy, 20% moderately happy, 10% neutral, and 10% horrible), you might find in one community there is no domestic violence and in the other there is 10% domestic violence. But it shows nothing about the happiness of their marriage.
Cozimjewish:
I saw goq's post and i was wondering what he was talking about!Actually, The Goq was commenting on the joke about the bochur.
The cake joke came later.
I just realized that the “-1” years glitch could mean that my comment (just above this one) was wrong, and The Goq’s post was actually about the cake joke. This can no longer be determined, though, because we’re far enough away that the time-stamps are the same.
(I wonder if the mods can put an exact time to a post?
The information must be there for there to be even a relative time-stamp…)
(PAA – No points for figuring out why I was here at all.)
Kovea Itim, NO SMOKING
I’m kovea itim for no smoking, but I’m married already.
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